Instilling a sense of conscience.

**CookMySock** · 19th July 2009, 14:06

Originally Posted by YellowDog

The problem I see is recognising what is enjoying yourself, but still taking reasonable care; compared with someone elses opinion of what you are doing.

That sums it up well.

I am all for doing as I choose, but not at risk of consequence to you or anyone else, and of course the reverse applies. Bar the "shit happens" or "whoever would have thought of that" stuff - no one is insulated from that.

But what about someone taking umbrage at my passing manoevre? Passing a two tonne car on a 200KG bike poses little or no risk to them. Sure I might give them a fright, but that does not mean they were actually at risk.

Same applies on KB - countless opinions here contrast with those of others, but no actual harm comes of it, until some persons secondary emotions turn into actions, and then things are said or done that are not reversable. Some things that are said are irrelevant - they do not actually harm me, per se. Move on.

It comes down to freedom. You are free to conduct yourself in any manner you choose.

And so am I.

But what if my unrestricted actions impact your freedom? Does one person have freedom at the expense of the next person?

The bottom line is, I am not free to act in any manner I choose, and neither are you, because if we were, then we would be able to act without consequence - which we cannot.

True freedom comes from me not impacting your rights, and vice versa.

So lets make a deal.

Steve

**CookMySock** · 19th July 2009, 14:09

Originally Posted by shrub

[....] and for a moment I seriously considered going after him

That moments' consideration probably saved your life. Again.

Steve

**Katman** · 19th July 2009, 14:13

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

The bottom line is, I am not free to act in any manner I choose, and neither are you, because if we were, then we would be able to act without consequence - which we cannot.

Absolutely.

And no-one has the right to knowingly and intentionally impose risk on others.

**shrub** · 19th July 2009, 14:32

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

That moments' consideration probably saved your life. Again.

Steve

Precisely. He demonstrated very clearly that he was willing to ride stupidly to prove his masculinity and I am too fond of my skin to play by his rules. His riding showed he lacked the skill to ride on the road so he'll wipe himself out soon enough, I just hope he doesn't take anyone else with him.

**CookMySock** · 19th July 2009, 14:37

Originally Posted by Katman

And no-one has the right to knowingly and intentionally impose risk on others.

I concur.

Sometimes I make mistakes. Sometimes, so do you. What is the way forward when mistakes are made?

Sometimes I speed. It's fun, but I will take great care when doing so. I have my family to think of. And yours. If I fuck it up, the consequences for all parties will be enormous. Is it worth it?

And so begins the process of reconciling entertainment value against personal safety. Everyones' limits are not the same. Is this the real problem? Do I have the right to impose my limits on you? What about the reverse? How will that work?

Steve

**Usarka** · 19th July 2009, 14:37

Originally Posted by shrub

Precisely. He demonstrated very clearly that he was willing to ride stupidly to prove his masculinity and I am too fond of my skin to play by his rules. His riding showed he lacked the skill to ride on the road so he'll wipe himself out soon enough, I just hope he doesn't take anyone else with him.

Changing lane without checking your six doesn't sound like sensible behaviour either......?

**shrub** · 19th July 2009, 14:38

Originally Posted by SixPackBack

FFS Katman, negate the risk, buy a Corolla and stop whinging like a nancy

Tough guy huh. Best stay awake next time you hit the road.

Was that you on the Gixxer? And if feeling sufficient anger at some moron (if it was you, please forgive me for calling you a moron) who nearly took me out through his incompetence to want to clip him across the ears makes me a tough guy in your eyes, then that's fine. You and I have different ideas of what is tough.

**Squiggles** · 19th July 2009, 14:41

Originally Posted by Usarka

Changing lane without checking your six doesn't sound like sensible behaviour either......?

Assumption, speed differential

For once i've found myself agreeing with DB (ya can put that in ya sig too

)

**shrub** · 19th July 2009, 14:44

Originally Posted by Usarka

Changing lane without checking your six doesn't sound like sensible behaviour either......?

So how was I supposed to do that? I indicated, looked in my mirror and saw a row of headlights behind me with nothing in the right hand lane - the retard on the Gixxer was moving up in our lane and I am told passed within a metre of the guys behind me too.

Should I have done a head count and then overtaken? Personally I don't like having my eyes off the road for that long when I am following another vehicle, but call me anal. I'm also smart enough to know that when a bike is following a slow car through a corner the odds are very good that he or she will overtake and (foolishly it seems) I expect other people to think the same way - it's a skill called defensive driving. You anticipate what the other person on the road is most likely to do so when they do it, you're ready.

**Usarka** · 19th July 2009, 14:49

Originally Posted by shrub

So how was I supposed to do that? I indicated, looked in my mirror and saw a row of headlights behind me with nothing in the right hand lane - the retard on the Gixxer was moving up in our lane and I am told passed within a metre of the guys behind me too.

Should I have done a head count and then overtaken? Personally I don't like having my eyes off the road for that long when I am following another vehicle, but call me anal. I'm also smart enough to know that when a bike is following a slow car through a corner the odds are very good that he or she will overtake and (foolishly it seems) I expect other people to think the same way - it's a skill called defensive driving. You anticipate what the other person on the road is most likely to do so when they do it, you're ready. You should give it a go some time, well worth it.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

(i was going to reply serious-ish but got bored reading it all)

**CookMySock** · 19th July 2009, 14:51

Originally Posted by Usarka

Changing lane without checking your six doesn't sound like sensible behaviour either......?

The way I read it, it sounded like he looked.

The other riders' speed differential is way way too high to be safe - it wrecks everyone elses' checks. I caused the exact same problem coming out of a 50k corner at 120k - the poor bloke pulling out of his driveway with a trailer on nearly leapt out his passengers' window when he saw me - he just never contemplated I would be there - seriously, the look on his face was priceless. I nearly leapt out his passengers window too. Harsh lesson learned.

Steve

**Usarka** · 19th July 2009, 14:53

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

The way I read it, it sounded like he looked.

The other riders' speed differential is way way too high to be safe - it wrecks everyone elses' checks.

Yep, and I bet shrub passed the cars in front of him at 105kph.......

**SixPackBack** · 19th July 2009, 14:54

Originally Posted by shrub

Was that you on the Gixxer? And if feeling sufficient anger at some moron (if it was you, please forgive me for calling you a moron) who nearly took me out through his incompetence to want to clip him across the ears makes me a tough guy in your eyes, then that's fine. You and I have different ideas of what is tough.

Different ideas indeed.

You sound like a thug, or maybe a copper!