Instilling a sense of conscience.

[Katman]

And before you say that riding at 200kph on a blind corder is a conscious decision. It is also a mistake born of ignorance and the natural human tendency for arrogance.

So you believe an individual has the right to do 200kph around a blind corner, and place any other road user that happens to be sharing that road in a potentially deadly situation, simply because that individual has the right to make a mistake???

People will always make mistakes. I, for one, wouldn't have it any other way.

Even if that mistake happens through an act of stupidity and claims the life of your partner?

[Mikkel]

I know you nearly kill yourself every day - I've seen you ride (sorry, you walked into that one). Maybe I was exaggerating, but at the very least he would have caused a major accident and he would have broken bits of me.

I can't see how you can reason that I walked into that one since you are, after all, just agreeing with what I said.
And you are exaggerating, change would to could and you are getting closer to the truth. Oh, and don't forget to check your mirrors and do a headcheck before pulling out.

I now only ride to Akaroa when it's quiet - during the week, early in the morning or when it's raining because too many half wits who think that because they own a high performance sportsbike and a set of leathers they are good riders and set out to prove it on the Akaroa GP (my observation is that a hell of a lot of them are crap riders). I'm showing my age, but once upon a time you didn't have to worry about people on bikes putting you at risk and left that role to sleeping car drivers. Now it seems there are an increasing number of people on bikes riding in a way that puts all of us at risk and gives ammo to the citizens demanding that "something be done about those bad people on motorcycles". Boy racers have cost genuine car enthusiasts a lot of freedom and idiots will do the same to us.

I wonder how many genuine car enthusiasts are/were also boy racers... You make it sound like the majority of bikers going to Akaroa are pillocks (I am not saying they aren't) and then complain that this group (i.e. the majority) is going to influence our (bikers I assume) freedom. Not hot for this new fangled democrazy thing? As for how it used to be, I wouldn't know - but old men have been complaining about young men (and even middle-aged ones too) behaving irresponsibly since the dawn of mankind.

For what it is worth - I do as yourself and try to avoid the Akaroa GP during the busy hours (or go a different way, gravel is good for you mkay). When I do go to Akaroa during the busy hours I know very well what to expect and make dead sure to look out for number 1 at all times. Yes, there will always be some dick who feels they have to prove something by passing you in a silly manner - at least I know to keep an eye out for them. That's not saying I think it is cool or appropriate behaviour - but no worse than a lot of other shit I see on the roads every day. The only real difference is that in this case the other guy is going faster than me.

[CookMySock]

Even if that mistake happens through an act of stupidity and claims the life of your partner?

There's two types of mistakes, one could have been reasonably foreseen, and one that could not.

Offing on a patch of diesel on a wet roundabout at night is going to catch anyone and everyone. Plain straight pure luck to avoid that one, and maybe a few very very experienced oldies can avoid it, but generally the roads aren't designed or intended for people with that massive level of experience. (That is, they are meant to be consumer-safe, not expert-safe.)

Other types of mistakes come from risky activity, from people who are just playing. These types of mistakes can be foreseen, and should be foreseen, and they are not then people should be held accountable for their stupidity. Dangerous driving? Careless use?


Steve

[MarkH]

There was a driver (a police officer IIRC) who had his BBQ on a trailer, and the lightweight tin BBQ lid flew off and hit the windscreen of a car travelling in the opposite direction. The terrified motorist swerved the steering wheel and rolled the van, killing a child. A court of law found the BBQ/trailer owner guilty.

If you recall correctly and it was a cop that was (partly) responsible for this incident then as a cop I think he should have known better than most about illegally driving with a secure load. The person that may ticket you or me for doing something stupid really ought to know well enough not to do the same thing themselves.

[oldrider]

I'm regularly disturbed by the number of times I have read on here "Meh, life's full of risks. If you don't want to expose yourself to risks then stay in bed".

All very well to a point but at what point does that idea cross the line?

Imagine this - a motorcyclist decides to go for a good hard fang in order to satisfy their need for an adrenalin fix. They misjudge a corner and plow head on into another motorcycle killing the other rider.

Do we say "Ah well, life's full of risks. Bad luck for the other motorcyclist" or do we say "You stupid prick, what right do you have to take an innocent life?"

If someone posts a video of themselves riding in a reckless manner out on public roads should we say "Awesome video dude" or should we say "What the fuck are you doing imposing risks on other people?"

Katman, I do not for one moment doubt your sincerity and I do admire your tenacity but if you always do what you have always done, you cannot expect to get different results!

Does this thread really indicate to you that you are winning?

Have you stood back and thought about changing your approach to your quest for more personal responsibility among our biking brethren?

It's a bit like trying to teach pigs to fly, first of all, the pigs aint never gonna fly and it just seems to really piss the pigs off, the harder you try to make them!

Most KBr's probably agree with you but I don't think you will ever reach the ones that you are targeting and you run the risk of irritating the ones that support you!

I am not suggesting that you give up, just suggesting modifying your approach might give you better results.

Whatever, good luck to you, (FWIW) you have won my respect for trying!

[swbarnett]

Yeah but research also shows that many people need to be reminded to take precautions (safe sex, seatbelts, drink driving etc).

When these messages are delivered effectively they have been shown to have a marked effect on a broad population.

I'm all in favour of timely reminders. What I object to is when the freedoms of the many are destroyed for the sake of the few - especially when the laws concerned have little or no affect anyway. And I don't think it's at all realistic to expect every human to be perfect (or desirable).

[swbarnett]

So you believe an individual has the right to do 200kph around a blind corner, and place any other road user that happens to be sharing that road in a potentially deadly situation, simply because that individual has the right to make a mistake???

I'm not saying that that act wouldn't be a stupid thing to do. What I'm saying is that In a world made up of people and not robots it WILL happen and there's nothing we can do about it. Also, I'm not necessarily against efforts to reduce the risk, just not at the cost of life - life is about a lot more than a healthy body.

Even if that mistake happens through an act of stupidity and claims the life of your partner?

Yes, I'd rather my partner (or me) lived one day of freedom than a lifetime of slavery.

[sinfull]

This shit's just wrong !!!

[tigertim20]

So you believe an individual has the right to do 200kph around a blind corner, and place any other road user that happens to be sharing that road in a potentially deadly situation, simply because that individual has the right to make a mistake???



Even if that mistake happens through an act of stupidity and claims the life of your partner?

ummm, how do you do 200km/hr by mistake? its like saying, Im sorry babe, I didnt mean to cheat on you, i fucked your mum by mistake, what? she tripped, fell, and landed on your dick?...
doing 200km/hr is a conscious choice, enacted by your right wrist. the only mistake in this would be choosing the wrong place to act this way.

While I also agree that I see why you continue to make these threads, I am beginning to wonder if it is flogging a dead horse.
Having said that, rosa parks changed the world, all by basically raising her middle finger and saying FUCK YOU, I AINT MOVING. I guess though if you raise one persons awareness, and make them a better rider, then maybe its worth it

[Katman]

Yes, I'd rather my partner (or me) lived one day of freedom than a lifetime of slavery.

If that comment wasn't so pathetic it would be laughable.

Are you suggesting that expecting people to ride their motorcycles with a degree of consideration for the safety and well being of others is akin to a lifetime of slavery???

[shrub]

Oh, and don't forget to check your mirrors and do a headcheck before pulling out.

You make it sound like the majority of bikers going to Akaroa are pillocks (I am not saying they aren't) and then complain that this group (i.e. the majority) is going to influence our (bikers I assume) freedom.

Yes, there will always be some dick who feels they have to prove something by passing you in a silly manner - at least I know to keep an eye out for them. That's not saying I think it is cool or appropriate behaviour - but no worse than a lot of other shit I see on the roads every day. The only real difference is that in this case the other guy is going faster than me.

I did check my mirror, but I wasn't going to spend 30 seconds staring in my mirror doing a head count - I'm too fond of my skin for that.

As for the majority of motorcyclists going to Akaroa being pillocks, I have never believed nor claimed that. There are a small number of retards (usually on the latest sportsbikes) who set out to prove to the world how awesome they are by riding at stupid speeds and taking risks that sometimes endanger other people. I think the majority of bikers (and I speak to dozens of bikers every day) are careful, considerate and know the limits of their bikes, the road and themselves. I think most of us do ride fast sometimes, and if the road is clear and conditions suit I enjoy a "spirited" ride as much as anyone - the key being in the right conditions.

And I disagree about idiots on bikes like the retard on the Gixxer being no worse than any other dangerous road user. He put me at danger because he was showing off, so it was an intentional act. The numbnut in the SUV who pulls out in front of me because he was too busy talking on his cellphone to look is just as dangerous and just as contemptible, but he didn't set out to do something dangerous so I can kind of forgive him (after a lecture), but I struggle to look kindly on someone who intentionally engages in an act that puts me (and most of all my bike) in danger because he's trying to prove something. Especially if he's on a bike because I like to think that I can trust bikers to look out for other bikers because that used to be the code.

[oldrider]

This shit's just wrong !!!

Some of that shit is also very skilful but some of the places that they are doing it just wrong, as you say!

In those cases I have to agree with you absolutely!

[tigertim20]

but did the guy in the SUV not make a conscious decision to engage in a second activity, while driving, that he knew would detract his attention from driving, knowing that inattentive driving is more likely to result in a casualty or accident on the road? he didnt accidentally use his phone. cunts on phones fuckin fuck me off!!

[swbarnett]

ummm, how do you do 200km/hr by mistake?

While it is a conscious decision it can be said to be a mistake to think they will always get away with it.

To expect every human to make the "correct" decision 100% of the time is just naive. It also assumes that we all agree on what is "correct".

[Katman]

Yes, I'd rather my partner (or me) lived one day of freedom than a lifetime of slavery.

So should we be allowed to do 100kph on the footpath?

Or does expecting us not to impinge on our freedom?