Insurance

[CookMySock]

People fear uninsured riders, because if they get hit by them, there is no one to cover the repair bill.. except for their own insurance company, and that will cost them their excess. Insurance has also become somewhat of a cash cow.

Here's my line on it ;

If you WANT to guard against damaging, or someone else damaging your bike, go buy some insurance.

If you don't, then don't.

If you are uninsured, and something happens to your bike, then TOUGH LUCK SON.

If someone else damages your insured bike, go cry to your insurance company and pay the excess you agreed to pay.

Also consider, uninsured riders are going to be bloody careful, where comprehensively insured riders are "all good". Who would you rather have in your fast group?

If it's still about money, then your income needs looking at, and something doing about it.

I never claim any insurance, so I gave up paying it. Thousands of dollars a year was going down the toilet.

Steve

[jono035]

I find this interesting on a few counts.

let me list the points out to make it a little clearer, as always, you might want to correct any point I have misunderstood.

1. You think that getting a bike from point A to point B on a public road with other traffic on the road without damaging any vehicle requires a god-like riding ability


2. You do not think that you have god-like riding abilities

3. You pay a premium so someone else pays for the majority of your mistakes

4. accidents are inevitable and will happen

Just to clear a few points up on my side.

1. I have no problem with any company making a profit - thats their job.

2. I didnt say it was unreasonable for you to have lack of confidence in your ability to avoid an accident. I havent seen you ride. You may be fully justified in your fears of crashing into an expensive car and being lumbered with a huge debt.

Whos history are you baseing the requirement for insurance on? My personal history? 20 years of road riding with zero at fault accidents? I have been in a position where I have argued with anothers insurance company where they were at fault and they didnt want to pay. The paid up after a few discussions so it worked out well but again, if the other driver was paying attention and didnt run me over he wouldnt have needed insurance.
He obviously thought that his skill set in operating a vechile on a public road without causing an accident was lacking and did not want to foot the bill for his own mistakes so he paid a company to cover the costs for him. He happened to be right and he did not pay for his own mistakes. His insurance company paid me instead.

1. To get from A-B without making mistakes, no. To get from A-B to guarantee beyond doubt that you will not make a mistake or an action that is later construed as a mistake, yes.

2. Hell no, I started riding 3 months ago and have covered less than 1000 kms

3. I pay a premium so that, in the event of something that I'm trying my hardest to avoid happens anyway, I don't have to be staring down the barrel of 100k worth of damages to repay.

4. Inevitable yes, but don't misunderstand me and think that I am brushing this off. All accidents are avoidable to some degree, but we make trade-offs as to what that degree is. I am not advocating a 'que sera, sera' attitude to accidents, just that statistically speaking, you will have one, one day.

As for your points:

1. Good, sorry for misinterpreting.

2. Like I said, I'm a new rider and, while I'm trying to avoid it, I realise that there is every possibility that I will make a giant cock-up at some point.

As for your history, congratulations on that record, I wish I could say the same. I don't believe that in individual cases you can look at someones history and use it as a 100% accurate prediction of the future.

A question for you: Do you think that your 20 year history of no accidents indicates that it is impossible for you to have an accident in the rest of this year (or your riding career, either or)?

[jono035]

Also consider, uninsured riders are going to be bloody careful, where comprehensively insured riders are "all good". Who would you rather have in your fast group?

I agree that this is certainly a part of it, but I don't believe that all accidents can be avoided by the kind of care and attention that most humans are able to exhibit.

I'm also thinking about all of this in a car-driver point of view. As a bike rider you're much less likely to utterly wreck someone elses car, and if you wreck a bike it is comparatively cheap. On a car the cost of one moment of inattentiveness can be in the hundreds of thousands (a very rare example, I admit) so I will continue to hope (and act to bring about) the best, while planning for the worst.

[Indiana_Jones]

Yep, got it in one.

I've always had full insurance, from my first car right on through. Would never drive without 3rd party for the reasons you mention, and always get full because there are idiots without any insurance out there.

That's what I did once I got my second bike, after being knocked off my 1st by a drunk driver, and only having 3rd party my company didn't pay out, nor did his as he was pissed.

Couldn't be shagged doing the whole civil courts thing.

It paid for itself when some muppet drove into the back of my CBR250 who had no insurance.

Now he's still paying it back to them I bet

If someone else damages your insured bike, go cry to your insurance company and pay the excess you agreed to pay.

In my above case, I didn't have to pay a cent for my excess as he was at fault.

-Indy

[jono035]

That's what I did once I got my second bike, after being knocked off my 1st by a drunk driver, and only having 3rd party my company didn't pay out, nor did his as he was pissed.

Couldn't be shagged doing the whole civil courts thing.

It paid for itself when some muppet drove into the back of my CBR250 who had no insurance.

Now he's still paying it back to them I bet

-Indy

Yeah, definitely. People driving/riding outside their insurance/license conditions is a big one too. With all the drink drivers on the roads then having full insurance can save you a whole lot of pain and suffering, right when you may need all the help you can get.

[CookMySock]

I don't have to be staring down the barrel of 100k worth of damages to repay.

You have the boot on the wrong foot.

If you have a $1,200 bike, would you insure it? Your call...

If you have a $100,000 mercedes, would you insure it? Your call..

Whether someone insures their 100k car is nothing to do with you, and nor should it be.


Steve

[jono035]

You have the boot on the wrong foot.

If you have a $1,200 bike, would you insure it? Your call...

If you have a $100,000 mercedes, would you insure it? Your call..

Whether someone insures their 100k car is nothing to do with you, and nor should it be.


Steve

True, but if I (allegedly perhaps) cause 100k worth of damage, it doesn't matter whether they are insured or not, ultimately someone is going to be blaming me for it and coming after me, whether it is the insurance companies lawyers of the merc owner's lawyers.

[CookMySock]

if I (allegedly perhaps) cause 100k worth of damage, it doesn't matter whether they are insured or not, ultimately someone is going to be blaming me for it and coming after me

But thats what they have insurance for.

It's certainly not your problem if I put 100k into some investment and treat it in a risky fashion. What difference does it make if it was a boat, plane, car, motorcycle, or if it was even used on the road or not?

If you have a large and expensive risk, you mitigate against it. Thats just business. Your call. Do it, or not. Thats what insurance is for.

My risks are small, inexpensive, and I don't treat them in a risky fashion - not worth mitigating against. Your 100k car - different kettle of fish.

You manage your risk, I manage mine. Easy peasy. My risk isn't your problem, and the reverse holds true.


Steve

[rosie631]

the real question should be why dont motorcylist get pissed at people who use insurance to pay for their upgrades?

and when you break it all down insurance means one thing and one thing only.

You feel the need to pay someone to cover your mistakes because you do not have the confidence in your ability to avoid an accident.

Well, I for one am pleased I had insurance, when I hit a patch of diesel on the road and came off at 100ks. Dis my riding skills all you like but that was unavoidable. And I wasn't the only one that went down. Both fully insured. Both bikes written off.

[cowboyz]

Well, I for one am pleased I had insurance, when I hit a patch of diesel on the road and came off at 100ks. Dis my riding skills all you like but that was unavoidable. And I wasn't the only one that went down. Both fully insured. Both bikes written off.

this is interesting.

1. By unavoidable are you saying EVERY SINGLE vechile that come across that certain patch of diesel came to grief?

I also find it interesting that instead of saying "I have insurance because sometimes unexpected things happen and I dont trust that I have the ability to deal with all the unexpected things that appear on the roads to avoid an accident" you have implied "Its not my fault!!!!!"

[MarkH]

I have full insurance, so I am covered.



Imagine this:
You park your bike.
Some old person driving along has a heart attack and his car hits your bike hard, writing it off.
The old persons insurance company says: "act of god" not our problem.
Replacing the bike will cost you $7K

Without insurance you are going to have to come up with that $7K out of your own pocket.

[ready4whatever]

i dont plan on getting insurance, the way i see it is if i crash im dead anyway

on the other hand i could accidently cause a logging truck to crash, he hits a bus, they hit a power pole cutting power to a city block, those people lose power to their freezers and all there meat goes off. then id have to pay. damn

[cowboyz]

I have full insurance, so I am covered.



Imagine this:
You park your bike.
Some old person driving along has a heart attack and his car hits your bike hard, writing it off.
The old persons insurance company says: "act of god" not our problem.
Replacing the bike will cost you $7K

Without insurance you are going to have to come up with that $7K out of your own pocket.

as insurance is a risk/reward business if that is your reasoning for having insurance then I have a proposal

For a bargin price of $1000 per year, I was personally insure you. In which if at any time, between 11.30pm and 11.45pm you fall off a building between 1.9 and 3.1m high injuring yourself so that you are unable to work for the rest of their natural life I will pay all expenses and cost of living for your natural life.

Can you afford to not have a job for your entire life???

[Owl]

I have full insurance, so I am covered.



Imagine this:
You park your bike.
Some old person driving along has a heart attack and his car hits your bike hard, writing it off.
The old persons insurance company says: "act of god" not our problem.
Replacing the bike will cost you $7K

Without insurance you are going to have to come up with that $7K out of your own pocket.

Nice scenario and they probably would try to use that clause if you were uninsured. Reality is that you may have to fight them in court, but they would ultimately lose, as it's not an "Act of god". It's just bad luck!

[MarkH]

Nice scenario and they probably would try to use that clause if you were uninsured. Reality is that you may have to fight them in court, but they would ultimately lose, as it's not an "Act of god". It's just bad luck!

Ummm, yeah - that is a real life situation and legally the accident is considered to be a no fault one. The guy who had the heart attack is not held to blame and his insurance company did NOT pay out the other party because legally they didn't have to. When an accident occurs and no one is deemed to have 'fucked up' then each driver just claims on their own insurance - no insurance = paying for the repairs/replacement yourself.

You could fight the insurance company in court but YOU would ultimately lose as their insured heart attack victim is a victim and will not be legally 'at fault' for the accident. You would also be out of pocket for the legal costs for trying to fight it in court.