$48,000 P.A. no skills easy hours, call me.

[davereid]

We shouldn't be paying for NZ Super. State funded super is the biggest crock of crap out there (it isn't even means-tested! WTF?) If the oldies weren't disproportionately represented in the voting stats, I am confident that universal super would have disappeared a long time ago.

State-super is a strange one. I may be corrected on this, but I think it goes something like...

Historically, 6 pence in the pound was taken off wage earners to fund their retirement. About the time of the Kirk Government I think, it was no longer collected separately, it was just incorporated into general taxation. By the time of the Muldoon Government, it was spent, just keeping government alive, but workers were promised that as they had paid for a pension, it would be there for them.

Indeed the lie was made, and retained by subsequent governments that the super fund was still alive, just buried in standard taxation. Steady as she goes kind of thing.

Ruth Richardson started to increase the age of entitlement, as she was aware that the current system had already taken the retirement savings of many workers, and squandered them, so the kitty was empty.

Subsequent governments realised that future pensions were a liability, so dodged the issue big-time.

Mr. Cullens kiwisaver completes the circle. Workers now save 6 pence in the pound for retirement just like it used to be.

I wonder how long until the Cullen fund, is spent somewhere else. Or how long till a private investement company goes broke, and government picks up the tab, effectively nationalising the scheme ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Super is a limited benefit... it is set at 65% of the average wage.

That is, a couple get 65% of the average wage, a single gets slightly over 33%.

The thread shows very little problem with welfare, its just the size of the payment that causes trouble.

Possibly ALL benefits should be capped at 65%. ?

[Ixion]

State-super is a strange one. I may be corrected on this, but I think it goes something like...

Historically, 6 pence in the pound was taken off wage earners to fund their retirement. .

One shilling and sixpence actually .An I want mine.

[Winston001]

Historically, 6 pence in the pound was taken off wage earners to fund their retirement. About the time of the Kirk Government I think, it was no longer collected separately, it was just incorporated into general taxation....

Ruth Richardson started to increase the age of entitlement, as she was aware that the current system had already taken the retirement savings of many workers, and squandered them, so the kitty was empty.....

Mr. Cullens kiwisaver completes the circle. Workers now save 6 pence in the pound for retirement just like it used to be.

I wonder how long until the Cullen fund, is spent somewhere else. Or how long till a private investement company goes broke, and government picks up the tab, effectively nationalising the scheme ?

Great post Dave and pretty accurate. The tax was called social security and approximated 6%. It was generally believed in 1938 that this covered existing pension payments and always would into the future. Bear in mind people who originally received pensions had not put any money in.

I have this vague idea that by 1948 the social security tax was not enough to cover the existing old age pension so it was topped up by general taxation. Muldoon recognised this economic reality and consolidated the Crown accounts. At the same time he promised universal national superannuation.

By 1992 Ruth Richardson could see the baby boomer retirement problem looming. Michael Cullen to his great credit grasped the problem and we now have the NZ Super Fund plus Kiwisaver. Whether these will work is argued up and down the country.

The NZ Super fund is nationalised. It belongs to the nation. The managers are private. Turning them into public servants with guaranteed jobs, their own super schemes etc isn't likely to help.

[Mully]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-Paula-Bennett

Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Stupid Hippies. I bet they actually expect her to turn up to their "People's Court"

[Ixion]

Lese majeste , surely? And if they attempted to enforce the "summons", perilously close to treason.

[pete376403]

Great post Dave and pretty accurate. The tax was called social security and approximated 6%. It was generally believed in 1938 that this covered existing pension payments and always would into the future. Bear in mind people who originally received pensions had not put any money in.

I have this vague idea that by 1948 the social security tax was not enough to cover the existing old age pension so it was topped up by general taxation. Muldoon recognised this economic reality and consolidated the Crown accounts. At the same time he promised universal national superannuation.

By 1992 Ruth Richardson could see the baby boomer retirement problem looming. Michael Cullen to his great credit grasped the problem and we now have the NZ Super Fund plus Kiwisaver. Whether these will work is argued up and down the country.

The NZ Super fund is nationalised. It belongs to the nation. The managers are private. Turning them into public servants with guaranteed jobs, their own super schemes etc isn't likely to help.

Haven't you missed the bit in the middle where the Lange Govt introduced a form of compulsory saving (IIRC similar in form to Kiwisaver, ie some from the employer, some from the employee) and Muldoon blatantly bribed the electorate by saying national would provide the same level of super without employee/er contributions.
If the Labour super had kept going the fund would be worth many billions by now.

[davereid]

Haven't you missed the bit in the middle where the Lange Govt introduced a form of compulsory saving (IIRC similar in form to Kiwisaver, ie some from the employer, some from the employee) and Muldoon blatantly bribed the electorate by saying national would provide the same level of super without employee/er contributions.
If the Labour super had kept going the fund would be worth many billions by now.

Muldoon was rolled by Lange thank Christ, but it means it can't have been a Lange scheme.

Common sense indicates it would have been Mr. Muldoon who ratted any money that was in the kitty, so you are likely right about that, he certainly got all the cash, even the stuff behind the couch.

[Oscar]

Haven't you missed the bit in the middle where the Lange Govt introduced a form of compulsory saving (IIRC similar in form to Kiwisaver, ie some from the employer, some from the employee) and Muldoon blatantly bribed the electorate by saying national would provide the same level of super without employee/er contributions.
If the Labour super had kept going the fund would be worth many billions by now.

I think you are talking of the third Labour Gummint under Kirk.

[pete376403]

Yeah, my mistake sorry, Kirk super scheme.

[Winston001]

Haven't you missed the bit in the middle where the Lange Govt introduced a form of compulsory saving (IIRC similar in form to Kiwisaver, ie some from the employer, some from the employee) and Muldoon blatantly bribed the electorate by saying national would provide the same level of super without employee/er contributions.
If the Labour super had kept going the fund would be worth many billions by now.

It was the Third Labour Government under Norman Kirk. But I'm not interested in playing politics on this. Understanding the past helps to explain where we are today. Superannuation is a New Zealand problem, not a political problem.

[Ixion]

All I know is that when I started working they deducted 1/6d in the pound from my miserable pittance. And I want to know who's got it and when I get it back.

[SPman]

All I know is that when I started working they deducted 1/6d in the pound from my miserable pittance. And I want to know who's got it and when I get it back.

It was called Social Security tax. Do you feel secure, socially?

[Indiana_Jones]

It was called Social Security tax. Do you feel secure, socially?

Only when you put your middle finger deep inside me.....

-Indy

[doc]

Haven't you missed the bit in the middle where the Lange Govt introduced a form of compulsory saving (IIRC similar in form to Kiwisaver, ie some from the employer, some from the employee) and Muldoon blatantly bribed the electorate by saying national would provide the same level of super without employee/er contributions.
If the Labour super had kept going the fund would be worth many billions by now.

Ferk when I got my contributions backpaid , bought my 1st bike. So it's Muldoons fault, I've been poor ever since. The bastards owe me now that you put it that way. Billions you say mmmm.