Welfare to work for the young people

[rainman]

Only people physically unable to work should get any handouts

Serious question: what do you think would happen to those unable to find work?

I'm strongly in favour of getting people off benefits and into work: it's more fulfilling for the people affected and generally better for the national mental health. However, the issue is a bit more complex, I think, than people here often recognise.

Sure, some people are playing the system for all it's worth (no, not talking about Bill English and Sir Rog). Others are clearly incapable of working: either through physical or mental disability. Given the statement above, I'm guessing you think they're OK to receive benefits: there's probably only a very a small number of people here who think that we should just shoot the weak and infirm. But there's a whole bunch of shades of grey between "clearly OK" and "clearly taking the piss".

One example: What do you do for the good solid hardworking family man (or woman) in some little rural town who's worked all their life for the local manufacturing company - until they go bust/relocate to China...? There is likely no other job to go to, they have deep connections to the area, limited financial reserves (consequence of a low wage economy), maybe kids and other family members to look after. We either pay them a benefit, or deal with whatever desperation drives them to: drugs, crime, suicide, other bad social outcomes.

The welfare state is a consequence of capitalism as it's currently constructed.

And out of a multi-Billion dollar welfare budget, chucking 150-odd million to try to prevent people bludging for a lifetime has to be worth a try.

Thought we were talking about youth, not MPs? (Sorry, too easy...)

[p.dath]

I think in that case you need to shift to where there is work.

Otherwise people will shift to nice places where there is no work so they never have to.

[Subike]

I think in that case you need to shift to where there is work.

Otherwise people will shift to nice places where there is no work so they never have to.

That problem has been delt with inside the Work & Income rules.
There are many places around NZ where you cannot move to if on a benifit as they are known non employment enviroments. So I you want to do what you are suggesting p.path, expect the Income Suport people to say NO to you being on a benifit.
This has been in effect for a number of years already

[p.dath]

That problem has been delt with inside the Work & Income rules.
There are many places around NZ where you cannot move to if on a benifit as they are known non employment enviroments. So I you want to do what you are suggesting p.path, expect the Income Suport people to say NO to you being on a benifit.
This has been in effect for a number of years already

In that case, a big thumbs up to WINZ!

[Ocean1]

Mr. English appears to have noticed that the N.Z. super costs about the same as the dole.

He's not the only one, if they won't fund me dotage when it's due I'll be having a major employment issue...

I also intend to use my spare time post retirement to finally nail 12 O'Clock wheelies.

Fuck that, it already hurts.

Serious question: what do you think would happen to those unable to find work?

They can eat dirt sandwiches same as I had to.



Can’t find work, forsooth…

[Ixion]

Serious question: what do you think would happen to those unable to find work?

I'm strongly in favour of getting people off benefits and into work: it's more fulfilling for the people affected and generally better for the national mental health. However, the issue is a bit more complex, I think, than people here often recognise.

Sure, some people are playing the system for all it's worth (no, not talking about Bill English and Sir Rog). Others are clearly incapable of working: either through physical or mental disability. Given the statement above, I'm guessing you think they're OK to receive benefits: there's probably only a very a small number of people here who think that we should just shoot the weak and infirm. But there's a whole bunch of shades of grey between "clearly OK" and "clearly taking the piss".

One example: What do you do for the good solid hardworking family man (or woman) in some little rural town who's worked all their life for the local manufacturing company - until they go bust/relocate to China...? There is likely no other job to go to, they have deep connections to the area, limited financial reserves (consequence of a low wage economy), maybe kids and other family members to look after. We either pay them a benefit, or deal with whatever desperation drives them to: drugs, crime, suicide, other bad social outcomes.

The welfare state is a consequence of capitalism as it's currently constructed.

Very true. And a moment's reflection will siuggest the obvious solution.

Eliminate capitalism. Then everyone has a job available, suited to their abilities. No benefits. Those that won't put in an honest days work (again, according to the abilities - which in some cases may be very slight : the word is won't not can't) , get sent to a reeducation camp. Where they *will* work. Very very hard.

Sorted.

[p.dath]

Ahh, so we should become a new province of China then?

[Ixion]

China is hardly a Communist state nowadays. If it ever was.

[Pedrostt500]

I'm all for giving a kid a fair break, yep there are going to be some arsehole employers abuse this, and on the other side of the coin some kids will just make themselves unemployable.
We had one young guy working for us up untill a little while ago, nice enough kid, but just would not follow instructions, regardless how simple we broke the tasks down for him, exsplain how you wanted some thing done and you could see what you told him going in one ear and straight out the other, this wasn't a case of a kid being a slow learner, this was a non learner, & once all the trades men in the company start refusing to work with a kid, then its all down hill for that kid.
Training schems are worth while, but you need to sort the weat from the charf.

[James Deuce]

China is hardly a Communist state nowadays. If it ever was.

Mao and his short term legacy are merely an interregnum between dynasties.