Emergency Braking

**YellowDog** · 10th August 2009, 18:09

Originally Posted by NDORFN

I don't use the rear brake at all, ever. Maybe if I was riding something with a particuarly heavy rear wheel I'd give it a very light tap to kill the momentum, but I'd never use the rear as a form of deceleration. I prefer to devote any momentary thought that's left after spending the majoriy of my attention on front braking and riding position to collision avoidance. That little split second it would take to tell my right foot to help out is a split second that can be spent telling my balls to pitch in and get some more lean on or get ready to make a safe bail.

You are quite typical and I am sure that you are very skilled with it too. However for slower speeds the front brake does not give you the required control.

I suspect you won't agree as you are probably an expert with quick dabs to give you great control.

IME:

Back Brake = set up and control with moderate stopping power.
Front brake = immediate and rapid stopping power.

Hopefully a compromise where both of these can be used for optimal riding safety and control, as per the writeup.

If you do what you do really well, don't change anything.

**NDORFN** · 10th August 2009, 18:42

Originally Posted by YellowDog

You are quite typical and I am sure that you are very skilled with it too. However for slower speeds the front brake does not give you the required control.

I suspect you won't agree as you are probably an expert with quick dabs to give you great control.

IME:

Back Brake = set up and control with moderate stopping power.
Front brake = immediate and rapid stopping power.

Hopefully a compromise where both of these can be used for optimal riding safety and control, as per the writeup.

If you do what you do really well, don't change anything.

I totally agree on your experience with back brake setup, which is one important thing I forgot to include in my post... although I would describe my setup more as "light" than "moderate". My rear brake pedal is set up so that it's soft and spongey and would take a good plant from the foot to get anything out of it. I originally set it up that way because I found myself accidently pressing it when I was riding, but now I keep my foot under the lever anyway.

**p.dath** · 10th August 2009, 18:45

Originally Posted by sil3ntwar

Is this statement wrong?

Shouldn't it say apply the front first?

Negative. Read the study at the beginning of the thread. The Motorcycle road code says to apply the rear brake as well.

**boomer** · 10th August 2009, 18:50

who wrote that shit.. if i had time i'd comment.

**NDORFN** · 10th August 2009, 20:02

Originally Posted by p.dath

Negative. Read the study at the beginning of the thread. The Motorcycle road code says to apply the rear brake as well.

The Motorcycle Road Code also says to stand up on the pegs when encountering loose gravel. If the Motorcycle Road Code was commercialised, it would probably be sponsored by Hyosung. COME ON!

**Benk** · 10th August 2009, 20:13

Originally Posted by NDORFN

The Motorcycle Road Code also says to stand up on the pegs when encountering loose gravel.

Thats actually fucking good advice mate.

Done any MX riding? Others read this stuff, so it pays to know something before posting.

**NDORFN** · 10th August 2009, 20:21

Originally Posted by Benk

Thats actually fucking good advice mate.

Done any MX riding? Others read this stuff, so it pays to know something before posting.

When you stand up on your Moto X bike is it's center of gravity around your ankles? No? It's way up around your thighs isn't it... in which case it makes sense to stand up. Reckon a dude on a Harley is going to fare better on gravel by standing on his pegs? On most road bikes, riding on gravel standing on pegs not only puts you in a position that you're not used to riding in (unlike a Moto X bike where you spend most of your time standing anyway), it also leaves you unable to throw a foot down to catch a slide. If you want to compare to other forms of riding, look at speedway. Ever seen someone loop the track standing on his pegs? The Motorcycle ROAD Code is for the ROAD, and for many different types of bikes, so it shouldn't be so specific on either of the issues (rear brake use OR standing up). Worst thing is, you can actually fail the test if you don't agree! I wouldn't call it fucking good advice mate, I'd call it fucking buraucratic bullshit. You probably won't find much of that in your Motorcycle OFFroad Code.

**The Stranger:Me** · 10th August 2009, 20:23

Originally Posted by NDORFN

I originally set it up that way because I found myself accidently pressing it when I was riding, but now I keep my foot under the lever anyway.

You do?
Do you go around corners?

**sil3nt** · 10th August 2009, 20:47

Originally Posted by p.dath

Negative. Read the study at the beginning of the thread. The Motorcycle road code says to apply the rear brake as well.

Sorry but reading that sentence i quoted is saying using the front brake causes the rear to sag and weight to move away from the front. That seems to be opposite of what really happens.

In fact the whole paragraph is rather poorly written and confusing. I am not trying to be rude i am an inexperienced rider who would like to read and learn on good practices.

I went back earlier in the thread and found the rest of the paragraph

Most experts say to apply the rear brake momentarily before the front. If braking is done the other way, it causes the back of a bike to sag and reduces weight over the front tyre. However it's irrelevant as for most riders (inexperienced or otherwise), when they grab the brakes their hand reaches the front lever quicker than the foot presses the back. If you can form a habit of always applying the rear brake first then the back you will be in a good position. The reason for this is many fold, Firstly its an additional braking forec and even on sports bikes will help. Secondly it works as a stabiliser, helping to keep the bike pointing straight while you brake, thirdly it compresses the suspension (especially the back, but also the front) which lowers the bike and allows you to brake harder before the rear looses traction, also because it compresses the front as well it helps enormously with the progressive loading of the front tyre helping to reduce your chances of locking it, Lastly (maybe) it does all this even if you lock it up (very common with new and old riders alike) so you get the benefits even if you are still trying to get the skills

In bold is another confusing area.

**NDORFN** · 10th August 2009, 21:12

Originally Posted by The Stranger

You do?
Do you go around corners?

Nope. Just go straight off the road and die. And on the odd occassion that I do go around, especially when it's a right hander, I keep my foot under the brake pedal so it'll get minced. Doesn't everyone do this?

**p.dath** · 10th August 2009, 21:22

I have substantialy re-written the section on braking now.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/wiki/Braking

I've broken it into sections, as I came to the conclusion that the reason there is a lot of different answers about braking is because there are a lot of different situations we get into that require an emergency stop.

While I based the article on a comprehensive test report, I think it could now benefit from input from advanced riders (certainly more advanced than me!), and it should also be easier to add sections to cover emergency braking in different scenarios.

**_STAIN_** · 10th August 2009, 21:27

Originally Posted by sil3ntwar

Is this statement wrong?

Shouldn't it say apply the front first?

statement is true

**NDORFN** · 10th August 2009, 21:37

It's true assuming your bike isn't an '87 GPX250. Don't worry Sil3ntwar, I've been through it all on my '88. Just practice at a safe speed until you've found the technique and setup that offers the best results. The effects of various theories varies so much from bike to bike (particularly due to age and condition of suspension) that you'll have to practice and learn new habbits when you upgrade anyway.