Emergency Braking

**Benk** · 11th August 2009, 09:46

Originally Posted by NDORFN

Seriously though, why would you want to encourage people to go faster on gravel with thier road bikes? Especially the begginers who are most likely to read this shit.

People are going to go fast without encouragement, at least feeling the front wheel break loose at 60kms on gravel might help you overcome the 'do too much instinct' and crash when the same thing happens at 120.

Having that knowledge about what a bike can and cant do, helps every aspect of riding. Knowing you can do 90kms on rough gravel means that you know you can confidently and safely ride at 70km an hour, and be confident with what you are doing.

**The Stranger:Me** · 11th August 2009, 10:10

Originally Posted by p.dath

I guess I disagree with you. But the thing with Wiki's is to quote sources of information that support your point of view, so that a nice factual line is formed.

I think if would be great it you could add a piece to the wiki and also cite a significant study to support your view, so that it becomes a richer document.
Otherwise it is just here-say.

You disagree that our bikes don't have outriggers?
Or that a significant weight rear of the rear axle assists the rear brake?
Or that they were unable to get experienced riders to get it right more than a third of the time?

Personally I think it would be great if people who didn't even know what they don't know didn't post their opinions as fact, but clearly that isn't about to happen either. At best it will mean an argument with someone some time because they read it on the internet, at worst it will mean someone relies on incomplete or incompetent advice and dies.

For example you haven't covered many of the basics of braking even.

How do you apply pressure? grab hard and fast? Why not, it's an emergency isn't it?
What effect does weight transfer have and why is this significant?
Chain chatter - often the first time people hear it they panic and release the brake - is this a good idea? you don't think it would be worth a mention?
If you apply the rear first, then weight transfers to the front, what is likely to happen to the rear? (hint, it's likely to lock) what will this do? - a) reduce braking traction and b) eliminate a gyroscope (those things which keep a motorbike perpendicular to the ground).
You don't mention differences between sport bikes and cruisers re which brakes are more effective and the effects of the COG and rake on front brakes.
What about the most basic, yet frequently overlooked maintenance items, ok, it's not the maintenance section, but maintenance is a part of safe and efficient braking so is worth a mention.

So yes, others can come along and correct you, but that's no excuse for lazy sloppy work on your part.

**The Stranger:Me** · 11th August 2009, 10:19

Originally Posted by Benk

People are going to go fast without encouragement, at least feeling the front wheel break loose at 60kms on gravel might help you overcome the 'do too much instinct' and crash when the same thing happens at 120.

Having that knowledge about what a bike can and cant do, helps every aspect of riding. Knowing you can do 90kms on rough gravel means that you know you can confidently and safely ride at 70km an hour, and be confident with what you are doing.

You are of course quite right, but you're wasting your time.
He can drive a keyboard so he's an expert.

**OutForADuck** · 11th August 2009, 10:28

Originally Posted by The Stranger

You are of course quite right, but you're wasting your time.
He can drive a keyboard so he's an expert.

I've been staying out of this quite a bit because to be frank there are always going to be more opinions than facts and no matter what we feel we know none of us can be right in the miriad of situations out there.

But the discussion should continue. I have noticed as a result that the wiki has already improved alot and, although can never and should never be seen as the absolute authority, is far more informative than previously. Great stuff for those riders looking for answers.

I like the general overriding concept throughout everyones comments... Practice Practice Practice.

Now my opinion.... lines up with The Stranger (strangely enough

)
Remember you can't practice emergency stopping by coming to a gentle stop at a red light. If you want to be practiced at the extreme.. practice at the extreme.. just approach it carefully and in a controlled manner.

**The Stranger:Me** · 11th August 2009, 10:39

Originally Posted by OutForADuck

I like the general overriding concept throughout everyones comments... Practice Practice Practice.

Yes, practice is mentioned in the wiki, however in reality this is THE most important point and will make a bigger difference to stopping distance than any amount of discussion on technique.

**sinfull** · 11th August 2009, 10:45

Originally Posted by The Stranger

Yes, practice is mentioned in the wiki, however in reality this is THE most important point and will make a bigger difference to stopping distance than any amount of discussion on technique.

Aint no better place to do this than at the track !
You will soon learn where you and your bikes capabilities lie !

Just a quick plug for my sponsors !!!!

Damn, what sponsors !

**SpankMe** · 11th August 2009, 13:01

Moved out of the wiki as it's for NZ specific topics, not general motorcycling.

**Leyton** · 11th August 2009, 13:48

I know its been flamed to death.. and everyone has different riding styles.. this is what I have observed..

Using both brakes at the same time is very important, The back brake works best as a trailer helping to keep the bike settled under extreme braking, your rear wheel has next to no traction anyways braking that hard! All weight transfer is being obsorbed where your tyre meets the road(Traction), and in the tyre, and forks itself.
Standing on your footpegs you do infact shift the center of gravity to your pegs, The bike is riding you! Give it what it wants, feed it wisely. Weight on pegs is noticeable more on gravel, and shifting weight from one side to the other at slow speeds under gyro effect.. has alot to do with how that back wheel wants to track. You also can, and recommended.. once again.. depends on your style and bike.. shift the wait to the lowest point of gravity and mass by choosing the opposing peg, helping stabilize the rear end, it also could save your ass if the back slides out at risk of high side, providing that you do not crap yourself and chop/close the throttle.

I have never used the rear coming out of a corner for stability. I tend to just use the classic crack'n'rollon method.. OH and HANG ON!

**Leyton** · 11th August 2009, 13:52

Originally Posted by sinfull

Aint no better place to do this than at the track !
You will soon learn where you and your bikes capabilities lie !

Just a quick plug for my sponsors !!!!

Damn, what sponsors !

Too true, I might look into a track day to cement a few learnings that I have had over the months.

LOL

**NDORFN** · 11th August 2009, 14:22

All this talk about riding makes me want to get a bike!

**Leyton** · 11th August 2009, 14:35

Originally Posted by NDORFN

All this talk about riding makes me want to get a bike!

I understand!!!!

**dipshit** · 11th August 2009, 14:41

Originally Posted by scracha

Why would I want to compress the rear?

To reduce the tendency for the bike to pitch forward and top out the rear end and make it feel light.

Why would I really give a stuff about reducing the chance of the rear reducing traction?

Because of the reduced stability.

How does the rear brake compress the front?

It squats/pulls down the rear end and keeps the bike flatter.

Try this for yourself to demonstrate. Do a hard complete stop using both brakes up to a set of traffic lights, say. Keep holding both brakes on after you have come to a complete stop for a couple of seconds... now release the rear brake pedal only. You will probably feel the back end of the bike rise up.

How does it place more braking force over the front wheel...you know...the wheel that in dry conditions is providing around 95% of the braking force".

It gives the bike more stability and a pushing down into the road feeling rather than a rising and floating feeling. This encourages you to go harder on the front brake.

All the new ABS systems coming out are also linked systems for this reason. It is to increase stability by reducing a bike's tendency to pitch forward and lift the rear end if using front brake only.