Emergency Braking

[dipshit]

This is how trends and fades take hold. People followed blindly what other people do without thinking about it for themselves.

Front brake only just happens to be the trend and the thing to do amongst the track guys at the moment.

[boomer]

This is how trends and fades take hold. People followed blindly what other people do without thinking about it for themselves.

Front brake only just happens to be the trend and the thing to do amongst the track guys at the moment.

Will you shut the fook up about the track...! maybe a name change will have a paradigm affect on your thought process..

[p.dath]

what if one was to be like, changing down as they used the front and rear brakes?
would they not stop within .5 of a m of the other guy AND be in a position to save their bike should a truck be doing 100km.h behind them?

[edit] Can you please explain to me what the "rest of the procedure" is?

As I said, they did some 800 emergency brake tests with a variety of riders - initially letting the riders do what they thought would produce the best results. Then they narrowed the test down to around 298 of the more successful tests, and isolated out the factors that made a different.

You'll see in the report that those riders that changed down increased their stopping distance by around 1.5m on average. So your better to not practice this method.

The report is here:
http://www.fmq.qc.ca/pdf/amorce-freinage_eng.pdf

[p.dath]

When emergency braking (as in very hard) from any decent speed, on a modern(ish) (sports)bike it is likely that the rear wheel will not be in touch with the ground...

They did find that the rear brake only had any impact right at the very beginning of the braking manoeuvre, and after that had almost no effect. As soon as the weight transfers off it to the front tyre it was not effective.

[Chrislost]

As I said, they did some 800 emergency brake tests with a variety of riders - initially letting the riders do what they thought would produce the best results. Then they narrowed the test down to around 298 of the more successful tests, and isolated out the factors that made a different.

You'll see in the report that those riders that changed down increased their stopping distance by around 1.5m on average. So your better to not practice this method.

The report is here:
http://www.fmq.qc.ca/pdf/amorce-freinage_eng.pdf

lets have a stop off!
name a road and a starting speed above 200.
i will downshift, you can do whatever your report says.

[dipshit]

i do, however, believe an instructor who uses his practical skills daily in addition to his theory may know a thing or two.

Yet i could stop my bike in a shorter distance using both brakes than i could when i was just using the front only.

[The Stranger:Me]

So because a guy that's good at going around and around in circles fast, say something... then without question you take it as gospel..???

I see how this works now. Someone with lots of photos of themselves on a race track is more superior to someone with only a couple of photos of themselves on a race track... who is more superior to people with no photos of themselves on a race track.

At least that's how the world must work for you guys.

Damn, you couldn't have picked a more appropriate user name could you?

On the one hand we have a guy that's good at going around and around in circles very fast and has lots of photos of himself on a race track, says something AND it is born out by observation of about 2,000 emergency braking runs over the last 5yrs.
On the other we have dipshit and his drop kick d.path and their only real world experience is a flaky study and a "I went to the track once".
Decisions, decisions.

[dipshit]

On the other we have dipshit and his drop kick d.path and their only real world experience is a flaky study and a "I went to the track once".

Well it's also funny how most bikes with linked braking systems stop quicker with more control than bikes with riders on them who are probably doing the trendy front only stops.

[The Stranger:Me]

So I don't agree that it invalidates the study, or that it is flawed as a result - but do acknowledge that my measuring the experiment they would have affected it.

So, what would be the likely effect of adding more weight rear of the rear axle then?

[SixPackBack]

Damn, you couldn't have picked a more appropriate user name could you?

On the one hand we have a guy that's good at going around and around in circles very fast and has lots of photos of himself on a race track, says something AND it is born out by observation of about 2,000 emergency braking runs over the last 5yrs.
On the other we have dipshit and his drop kick d.path and their only real world experience is a flaky study and a "I went to the track once".
Decisions, decisions.

Hell I'm sold, those girls really seem to know what they is talkin' about.

[p.dath]

lets have a stop off!
name a road and a starting speed above 200.
i will downshift, you can do whatever your report says.

The average emergency stopping time was a just over three seconds. How many times do you think you can downshift during that time in an emergency?

So lets say you are applying your front brake hard. The weight is on the front wheel. At this point in time the rear brake has little impact (almost unmeasurable). You change down. With the weight on the front wheel do you still feel that engine braking will have an impact - even though the rear brake does not? And if so, why do you feel engine braking will help when the rear brake will not?

They did find that engaging the clutch did help, so that could be your saving grace.

[Chrislost]

Yet i could stop my bike in a shorter distance using both brakes than i could when i was just using the front only.

Pretty sure that they tell you this so that you dot get confused reaching for all the different leavers and knobs while that fkn car is pulling out in front of you.

EFFECTS OF DECELERATION FORCE
The mean deceleration for the group of 298 passes braking from 100 km/h to zero wa -0.898 g in a mean time
of 3.18 seconds. During these more than 3 seconds, the rider had to manage his braking while subjected to a considerable
deceleration force against his arms and hands which must in large measure support his upper body. A
simulator designed to recreate this force would have to incline the motorcycle on its front wheel at an angle of
64 degrees.

they obvoiusly used knob ends like boomer for their tests as most riders know to hold the tank with their knees

[The Stranger:Me]

Well it's also funny how most bikes with linked braking systems stop quicker with more control than bikes with riders on them who are probably doing the trendy front only stops.

Also interesting that most journos slammed the linked brakes on the Blackbird (exact same system on the VFR's) and many sites show you how to unlink the brakes.

The linked systems on modern BMWs are exceptional, though the only ones I have seen have been antilock also (which means the rear can't lock as weight is transferred) so I would be happy to see a comparrison between modern linked BMWs without ABS if you have one thanks.

[The Stranger:Me]

So lets say you are applying your front brake hard. The weight is on the front wheel. At this point in time the rear brake has little impact (almost unmeasurable).

Unless of course you have a full size Mac computer in a protective case rear of the rear wheel.

[Chrislost]

the average emergency stopping time was a just over three seconds. How many times do you think you can downshift during that time in an emergency?

So lets say you are applying your front brake hard. The weight is on the front wheel. At this point in time the rear brake has little impact (almost unmeasurable). You change down. With the weight on the front wheel do you still feel that engine braking will have an impact - even though the rear brake does not? And if so, why do you feel engine braking will help when the rear brake will not?

They did find that engaging the clutch did help, so that could be your saving grace.

If i had to emergency stop i would assume that the back wheel would be airbourne.
i would still use the rear brake.
i would still be in first by the time i had stopped.
[edit] i would still stop faster then you