Engineers strike could effect service @ Telecom?

[laserracer]

What the indians on the help desk are going on strike ?greedy buggers what they cant live on 3 rupees a week and all the rice they can eat...i say they are overpaid i only get 1 rupee a month and no rice ...but free parking for my elephant

[MisterD]

Not for long. They're striking because they've lost the contract with Telecom - to another aussie outfit.
Aussie outfit needs to take on staff here. But instead of taking them on as employees, will only take them on as subcontractors.
Each bloke, most of whom are in their 40s/50s/60s (some of them) will need to fork out over $100k to get the kit together that they'll need as subcontractors.
Now, if they only get a maintainance contract, they'll be taking home about $21k a year.

I know all that Dave, the point I was making is that regardless of who provides your service, it's the same bunch of field techs that fix the faults...

[MisterD]

Downer's CEO isn't.
She's resigned.

You mean Sheridan?

[Lias]

Its rare that I support the work of unions, but this time I'm with them. The workers are getting shafted, and it will decrease the quality of the network. The companies involved are trying to force the employees to become subcontractors, and rather than being paid wages they will be paid on a per job basis. This means they will have to do more jobs in the same span of time to make the same money. This means that they are more likely to rush jobs, or do them halfassed to get more money. This WILL break stuff, and its our telecommunications that will suffer. If you think the network is shit now, its going to get alot worse if this goes ahead.

[Pussy]

Its rare that I support the work of unions, but this time I'm with them. The workers are getting shafted, and it will decrease the quality of the network. The companies involved are trying to force the employees to become subcontractors, and rather than being paid wages they will be paid on a per job basis. This means they will have to do more jobs in the same span of time to make the same money. This means that they are more likely to rush jobs, or do them halfassed to get more money. This WILL break stuff, and its our telecommunications that will suffer. If you think the network is shit now, its going to get alot worse if this goes ahead.

Agree with you on this, A!

[oldrider]

Its rare that I support the work of unions, but this time I'm with them. The workers are getting shafted, and it will decrease the quality of the network. The companies involved are trying to force the employees to become subcontractors, and rather than being paid wages they will be paid on a per job basis. This means they will have to do more jobs in the same span of time to make the same money. This means that they are more likely to rush jobs, or do them halfassed to get more money. This WILL break stuff, and its our telecommunications that will suffer. If you think the network is shit now, its going to get alot worse if this goes ahead.

Agree with you on this, A!

Sorry, I don't agree with you! (well in theory anyway)

If the contractors are being rewarded for their competence and performance by adding value to the network, the service should improve or at least maintain it's current standard as a minimum.

The better contractors will get a greater percentage of the work and will need to employ the others as they get busier and take on more work.

The Unions just protect the incompetent members and maintain performance to the level of the lowest common denominator!

Why do Unions do that? Because it is the lowest common denominator's that need unions the most!

The unions life blood is incompetence, go figure, do rabbit boards ever eliminate "rabbits" ? NO, the rabbits are their life blood!

Telecom doesn't want labour problems, they just want their system maintained and let the contractors worry about employment details.

Can't blame them for that!

If it improves their performance even better for me, as one of their (currently dissatisfied) customers!

[Clockwork]

Its about squeezing every last cent of profit by reducing working conditions and other overheads by transfering liability for them on to someone elses balance sheet. Then, (here comes to good part) Those poor subbies will have to compete with each other on price and service thereby reducing cost even more.

Of course they may go bankrupt in the process but that will be their and their creditors problem too! There will always be some other desperate sucker who will try to pick up the slack.

Of course the ones that do scrape a living income they probably will not make enough to ever reininvest or save for their retirement or earn through sickness but again.... that wont be Telecom's problem.

The subbies will be forced to cut corner's to compete, that will affect service and quality but you guessed it, that wont be Telecom's problem either.


Obviously you can't off-shore this kind of support to India or Asia but this is the fiscal equivilent of doing so.

[marty]

I'm a member of the EPMU. They are fucking useless. Toothless, out of touch and ineffective.

[Ixion]

So, these contractors. Will they be permitted to take work for other companies. Like, Telecom opposition? If they really ARE contractors, they should be allowed to . And to work when and where they choose, subject to meeting agreed SLAs.

If they really are, then Telecom can at least say that they are genuinely wanting to use a different business model. But if not, then it's just exploitation

[MisterD]

So, these contractors. Will they be permitted to take work for other companies. Like, Telecom opposition? If they really ARE contractors, they should be allowed to . And to work when and where they choose, subject to meeting agreed SLAs.

These guys contract (or subcontract) to Chorus, who are operationally separated (by act of Parliament) from Telecom Wholesale and Telecom Retail. On the copper side of things, there effectively is no competition, on the Optical Fibre side it'll depend what happens with the gummint's $1.5bn promise and how much the utilities companies get of it...

The business model Visionstream want to use is the way they work for Telstra in Australia and the fairness / unfairness of it really depends on the terms of the sub-contract as far as I can see...although the general feeling, especially out of Northland, is that if Visionstream think they can just transplant what they do in big Aussie cities in to provincial NZ they're "dreaming".

I also don't see how Visionstream can hold any kind of economic gun to the guys' heads though...there's a shortage of techs nationwide, and if Transfield and Downer are prepared to recruit and relocate people from the Philippines, then moving within the North Island shouldn't be a drama should it? The power would appear to be slightly on the techs' side on this one...

[oldrider]

So, these contractors. Will they be permitted to take work for other companies. Like, Telecom opposition? If they really ARE contractors, they should be allowed to . And to work when and where they choose, subject to meeting agreed SLAs.

If they really are, then Telecom can at least say that they are genuinely wanting to use a different business model. But if not, then it's just exploitation

If I understand you correctly, I agree with you.

Legally,Telecom does have the right to manage their business as they choose!

Their declarations of purpose, intent and governance must be available for public scrutiny and legal challenge!

I presume that Telecom directors and management have done their work accordingly.

[Lias]

So, these contractors. Will they be permitted to take work for other companies. Like, Telecom opposition? If they really ARE contractors, they should be allowed to . And to work when and where they choose, subject to meeting agreed SLAs.

If they really are, then Telecom can at least say that they are genuinely wanting to use a different business model. But if not, then it's just exploitation

Chorus (Aka the bit of telecom that handles the lines) currently has all its service/maintenance work contracted to Downer & Transfield. They've decided they want to make room for the 3rd big aussie player, Visionstream so they've redivided the country up. Basically this means all the Downer/Transfield techs in certain areas are going to become VisionStream employees instead, but VisionStream dont employee people directly, they only subcontract. So all the techs have to become self employed subcontracters, running their own mini business, but with VisionStream as their only contract. They take all the risk, have to invest in all the equipment (and were talking 10's of thousands of gear), and VisionStream takes all the profit. Plus as mentioned earlier as subcontracters they get paid on a "Per job" basis rather than wages like an employee. From what i've been told to make the same money they are on now as employees, they will have to increase productivity, meaning more rushed jobs, meaning shitter service for us the consumer.

They are being shafted Ixion and right royally too.

[Lias]

Legally,Telecom does have the right to manage their business as they choose!

Yes well, Telecom is one business that has no right being a private business, it (along with the power companies) need to be nationalized again to keep them honest.

[Dave Lobster]

Yes well, Telecom is one business that has no right being a private business, it (along with the power companies) need to be nationalized again to keep them honest.

That's the funniest thing I've heard this month!!

Unless, by honest, you mean wasteful and incompetent.

[idleidolidyll]

you don't care that this is nothing less than another foreign company driving Kiwi wages down so they can send more money offshore?

I do and I support the telco workers; this is illegal (dependent contracting)