Cornering

[Sidewinder]

Was that a question?

i think that was it

[SpankMe]

Moved out of the wiki as it's for NZ specific topics, not general motorcycling.

[CookMySock]

Yeah, then theres that too!

Steve

[AlpinePossum]

So I'm reviving / upgrading slightly rusty skills... so I've been reading all the books in the library on Motorcycling I can lay my library card on...

(My learning is style is I do, then I can understand what I read, then I try out what I read, then I chew it over in my head...rinse and repeat)

And... what I've been reading is 99.9% nothing I didn't know and do all ready.

It did occur to me as I was doodling my dirt bike around the port hills today practising delayed apexing... that I hadn't really read anything about what I really cared about.

I already did 99.9% of what the books say... but what I really wanted to know about was what to do when shit happens. eg. The corner radius decreases, and obstacle hoves into view, you meet an ice patch in the shade (yup, there is still the odd ice patch up there)

Yip, I _do_ go slow enough on entry, follow the right line, I do instinctively cover the front brakes, .... but shit still happens when you're already leaning into the bend suddenly you have to do one of the following

a) Turn much sharper to avoid obstacle.
b) Turn much wider to avoid obstacle and then turn much much sharper to avoid running off the road.
c) Stop dead whilst turning hard.


Now I'll really give you kudo's if..
* you can tell me what you must do,
* in each case above,
* assuming you _already_ have done all The Right things entering the bend,
* when you suddendly hit one of those scenarios.

Working it out after the obstacle appears is too late. It's needs to be preprogrammed into the muscles to work in time.

ie. The answers need to have (safe) matching exercises to drill the auto-responses into the msucles.

[mossy1200]

This link is comprehensive cornering advice

http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/

[Winston001]

Yip, I _do_ go slow enough on entry, follow the right line, I do instinctively cover the front brakes, .... but shit still happens when you're already leaning into the bend suddenly you have to do one of the following

a) Turn much sharper to avoid obstacle.
b) Turn much wider to avoid obstacle and then turn much much sharper to avoid running off the road.
c) Stop dead whilst turning hard.


Now I'll really give you kudo's if..
* you can tell me what you must do,
* in each case above,
* assuming you _already_ have done all The Right things entering the bend,
* when you suddendly hit one of those scenarios.

I have no idea what to do and I doubt reading advice will ever really help. My observation is the only way to get these emergency skills is practise them off-road on a trail bike, then practise on track-days. Beyond that its suck it and see. Some riders are skilled.....and then there are the rest of us.

In my ideal world there would be a special road full of funny curves and surrounded by hay bales. There would be 1 litre bikes with roll-bars and you could practise away to your hearts content.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Every corner you do has an apex...Teaching a newbie about the apex of a corner is all part of the process of picking the line through a corner. It doesn't have to be a racing line but should be the safest line... especially for picking a line on a right hander.

[YellowDog]

Surely the basics of cornering need to be covered before any of the style issues.

What about countersteering to set your lean. There is a relationship between; speed, lean angle, gradient, and camber to be discussed before the actual corner.

It looks like we trying to reinvent the wheel here.

[AlpinePossum]

I have no idea what to do and I doubt reading advice will ever really help.

Reading won't help no. Reading a good description of a safe exercise... and then doing it again and again and again... encodes it into your muscle memory, and then they'll do it for you automagically when the proverbial hits the fan.

My observation is the only way to get these emergency skills is practise them off-road on a trail bike, then practise on track-days. Beyond that its suck it and see. Some riders are skilled.....and then there are the rest of us.

Yip, I'm "one of the rest". :-) But I'd prefer to get it down pat rather than "suck it and see". Hmm. You're right about the off-road... my DR loves dirt.

But to do this sort of practice means a fair amount of flatish space without hard rocks and solid trees. ie. The tracks around the Waimak I've seen aren't ideal. Do you know a good track around Christchurch, just round and round hamster wheeling rather than hairy bumps and narrow twists?

In my ideal world there would be a special road full of funny curves and surrounded by hay bales.

Personally, having kicked a hay bale hard enough to regret it... I think people who put hay bales near bikers have a wicked sense of humour.

[AlpinePossum]

This link is comprehensive cornering advice

http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/

That's a Good link.... at least it addresses the issue. It's still not what I want though.... as you come around a corner and the brown stuff is airborne and fanwards headed... you don't have time to be thinking, "Now what did that website say?" I want a way of making the response automatic.

[The Stranger:Me]

That's a Good link.... at least it addresses the issue. It's still not what I want though.... as you come around a corner and the brown stuff is airborne and fanwards headed... you don't have time to be thinking, "Now what did that website say?" I want a way of making the response automatic.

Not sure what you are driving at really.

For a start if you late apex and look to the vanishing point this will give you the best view ahead that you will get and thus the earliest warning that you are approaching a problem - or a problem is approaching you. That's the best you can hope for in that regard.

You are meant to drive/ride such that you can stop within the distance of clear road in front of you. Combine this with the point above and there is your answer.

Enter wide, ensure your entry speed is not putting you beyond your comfort or ability zone, stay wide and maintain that speed until either a)you can see the exit is clear at which time you may apex the corner and gas it or b)if you encounter a hazard take the most appropriate action - which will depend on the hazard.

If you do encounter a hazard and have no options left then you were too fast or ran out of talent in which case you lose, go back and try again.
There is no magic bullet.
It's the road, leave the 10/10s stuff for the track and leave yourself some room to move (brake, accelerate, lean etc) in a corner. If you haven't yet figured out how to tell where that point is, slow down, err on the safe side.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Not sure what you are driving at really.

For a start if you late apex and look to the vanishing point this will give you the best view ahead that you will get and thus the earliest warning that you are approaching a problem - or a problem is approaching you. That's the best you can hope for in that regard.

You are meant to drive/ride such that you can stop within the distance of clear road in front of you. Combine this with the point above and there is your answer.

Enter wide, ensure your entry speed is not putting you beyond your comfort or ability zone, stay wide and maintain that speed until either a)you can see the exit is clear at which time you may apex the corner and gas it or b)if you encounter a hazard take the most appropriate action - which will depend on the hazard.

Best advice I have seen on here for a long time...

[sinned]

Yip, I _do_ go slow enough on entry, follow the right line, I do instinctively cover the front brakes, .... but shit still happens when you're already leaning into the bend suddenly you have to do one of the following

a) Turn much sharper to avoid obstacle.
b) Turn much wider to avoid obstacle and then turn much much sharper to avoid running off the road.
c) Stop dead whilst turning hard.

Now I'll really give you kudo's if..
* you can tell me what you must do,
* in each case above,
* assuming you _already_ have done all The Right things entering the bend,
* when you suddendly hit one of those scenarios.

If you don't think you can handle those situations correctly I suggest you are probably riding too fast for your skill level. Mind you a lot of us do that.

Best advice I have seen on here for a long time...

Agreed and congratulations to The Stranger.

[MSTRS:Me]

For a start if you late apex and look to the vanishing point this will give you the best view ahead that you will get and thus the earliest warning that you are approaching a problem - or a problem is approaching you. ....

If you do encounter a hazard and have no options left then you were too fast or ran out of talent...

It's the road, leave the 10/10s stuff for the track and leave yourself some room to move (brake, accelerate, lean etc) in a corner. If you haven't yet figured out how to tell where that point is, slow down, err on the safe side.

And that, in a nutshell, is it. The road is not a place to practice race skills, so always tailor your riding to give yourself the best chance of completing each and every ride.
Remember, there are no prizes except satisfaction, but there is a world of hurt awaiting if you 'lose'.

[2wheeldrifter]

depends what ya riding, just ride in the power

That's more in tune to most thinking...... revs are your friend for powering out and engine braking... if either is needed