Paul Holmes - open letter to John Key

**Usarka** · 24th August 2009, 13:39

Originally Posted by Drunken Monkey

Got anything better than anecdotal evidence to back this claim up?

It was from a drug and alcohol researcher I flatted with 4 years ago. I don't have a signed affidavit or any of his research to hand so yeah good point I'm way underqualified to talk in this thread.......

**Drunken Monkey** · 24th August 2009, 13:58

Originally Posted by Usarka

It was from a drug and alcohol researcher I flatted with 4 years ago. I don't have a signed affidavit or any of his research to hand so yeah good point I'm way underqualified to talk in this thread.......

No, but some form of link would be nice. My point is there is a LOT of research out there that debunks the "gateway drug" myth. One of many examples can be found here: http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm

So, I just wanted to know if you were making an informed decision on studies such as this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...?dopt=Abstract , or whether you were just posting personal opinion based on ignorance and disguising it as a fact.

**Babelfish** · 24th August 2009, 14:04

He shouldn't have even brought over the counter psuedo eph into the equation, it fucks him up later in the argument and doesnt do his already shite cred any favours.

Originally Posted by peasea

If Paul Holmes was half a journalist

They dont exist any more.

Originally Posted by Lias

Alcohol does much more damage to society, its responsible for more deaths, and more crime than meth.

I reckon we should legalise it, tax it, and punish those who break the law under its influence the same as we do with booze.

Yep. Better yet, create drugs that do a better job for less money and undercut the fuckers peddling it in their back yards.

Originally Posted by Hitcher

We live in a culture that believes that one has to be off one's head on some substance or other in order to have fun, be sociable and fit in

...bla bla bla...

The thing that startles me most about a lot of this is the willingness that most have to bung all manner of shit in their body that has, at best, been lightly tossed together by Dwayne (who failed NCEA science) on a barbecue in his garage in Dargaville. Given the passion that society has to demand country-of-origin labelling, Heart Foundation ticks, % daily allowance, and all manner of other nanny state conditions on everything else they ingest, I find this a massive contradiction.

Drugs and alcohol have been part of being social for a few years now...probably since some cave bloke found an interesting leaf to chew before jiggling his bits in an intertribe fire dance. People like to remove themselves from the humdrum one way or another...some more heathly than others...

I thought this was fairly obvious and logical and by now we would have accepted it. If the worlds chemists were engaged to do this properly rather than having their previous concoctions bastardised by Dwayne and his mates then perhaps we'd be in a safer and more predictable state. Allowing breweries while not allowing chemists is hypocritical at best.

Given the simplicity of this, I have ofter wondered what benefit to gang-run druges the politicians are holding onto. Cashflow through money laundering has been mentioned.

Anyhoo, if we could sort this out, perhaps we could not only be left alone while ordering our psuedophed but we could also get our fully tested and properly packaged weekend wonderpill at the same time!

**ghost** · 24th August 2009, 14:18

Execute every one over 18 found in P labs. Execute every one found to be supplying P. Execute everyone who commits violent crimes while under the influence of P.

Think thats to harsh? Have a look at what they are doing to people, to society...............

**ManDownUnder** · 24th August 2009, 15:22

Spike the precursors.

Tap into the illicit supply chains and throw a few items in there that look the part but either totally fuck the chemistry or trigger the odd P lab explosion. Hurt the profiteers.

Drop a bit of nuclear medicine in there and pick up the users (and labs) with a geiger counter

**SPman** · 24th August 2009, 16:15

Originally Posted by Slyer

Clever and intelligent people don't do P.

Given the right quirk in their nature, clever, intelligent people, like anyone else, are inclined to do anything, anyone else might do - including Ice, P, Heroin, whatever - but, of course, they are too clever and intelligent to become hooked - they'll just give it a taste............

After a while, however, they tend to become rather less clever and intelligent!

**The Stranger:Me** · 24th August 2009, 16:27

Originally Posted by Deano

What about all the legitimate cold/flu sufferers ? Is there a good alternative or will they all be disadvantaged?

There is an excellent alternative, the same alternative that has existed for the last 100,000 years - HARDEN THE FUCK UP!

**ManDownUnder** · 24th August 2009, 16:34

Originally Posted by The Stranger

HARDEN THE FUCK UP!

May I provide sir with an example of why that theory's not always the best approach?

**The Stranger:Me** · 24th August 2009, 16:44

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

May I provide sir with an example of why that theory's not always the best approach?

Ah, did I miss something in that article, I didn't notice any reference to pseudoephedrine. Also, I may be incorrect here, but I was under the distinct impression that we (humans) hadn't yet managed to cure a viral infection yet.

That article relates to flu, however pseudoephedrine is also claimed to be a cold remedy. Fook sake, have a lemon and honey drink and go to bed if you must.

**scumdog** · 24th August 2009, 16:52

Originally Posted by Drunken Monkey

No, but some form of link would be nice. My point is there is a LOT of research out there that debunks the "gateway drug" myth. One of many examples can be found here: http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm

So, I just wanted to know if you were making an informed decision on studies such as this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...?dopt=Abstract , or whether you were just posting personal opinion based on ignorance and disguising it as a fact.

All I can say is that from my experiences I've yet to meet a druggie that started right off on the hard stuff.

**enigma51** · 24th August 2009, 17:02

Originally Posted by Mully

Apparently, most people who get hooked think they can handle it.

So, what the solution to the P problem then?

Shoot them.

**Pedrostt500** · 24th August 2009, 17:49

So how much P can be made from a packet of cold flu tablets, its a question that never seems to get an answer.
The root of the problem lies with organised crime, Give the police the tools and back up to go after organised crime, allow the seizure of the proffits of crime, wake up the justice system so that it doesn't squander the hard work of the police, with petty fines and comunity service.
Allow the police to use all seized assets, or cash them in to use the money to fight the crime organisations, not letting the beauracrats to put the money into the slush fund.

**RantyDave** · 24th August 2009, 19:32

Originally Posted by scumdog

All I can say is that from my experiences I've yet to meet a druggie that started right off on the hard stuff.

Oh scummy, please. Have you met a druggie that never went to school? Schools are the gateway, close the schools. Have you met a teetotal druggie? Alcohol is the gateway, ban alcohol. In fact, there seems to be a pretty close correlation between you meeting them and druggies - sure you don't have something to tell us?

Today's Sesame Street was bought to you by the words Cause, Correlation and the letter "P".

Dave

**RantyDave** · 24th August 2009, 19:42

Originally Posted by Slyer

Clever and intelligent people don't do P.

Sure they do. One can be clever, intelligent and misguided. One can be clever, intelligent and misinformed. One can also be clever, intelligent, be hated by damn nearly everyone because you're a spoiled brat whose dad is a self important bullshit pedlar and be desperate to fit in and be accepted by anyone at all. One might also be clever, intelligent and just desperate for an escape from all the bullshit.

In most of these cases I believe Mr Holmes needs to take look somewhat closer to home and muse on the nature of regret for a while. But there is little to no doubt that P turned an ordinary spoilt bitch from Auckland into something rather more disturbing in a very short period of time. Those without Daddy and Daddy's lawyers must be absolutely fucked.

Dave