Hardcore Biker
They were just saying how badly off lawyers are who are doing legal aid, starting at 88 dollars an hour for a noob and going up to "only" 182 per hour. Oh how do they cope?
Living on a mere $3500 if they bill a 40 hour week. Oh the horror, thats not alot over 170k a year. Youd have to do overtime to get a decent porsche on that kind of chicken feed.
Shame on you NZ for being so tight, SHAME!
Why does my trigger finger twitch when I think about lawyers?
"channellling the Pleideans"
perhaps you can't afford a good one?Originally Posted by Timber020
Do the maths : even if your figures are right, $170k/yr is gross turnover for the business the particular lawyer is running. Do you know anything about that? think about rent, over heads (like the quite high cost of being in business as a lawyer esp if you run a trust account), staff support, tax and stuff. Sure a barrister sole could in theory make that $170k/yr go a long way, but the nett is ageing VW beetle material, NOT Porsche material.
Maybe the big playaz are making good money, but I noted that Greg King and Mike Reid got around 1. somthing million and 2 million respectively (IIRC). there were four lawyers on each of those trials so that would have been spread out over them, plus over the MONTHS of prep and the months long trial. as an hourly rate I bet its fuck all.
I know people who do legal aid work, and due to the difficulty of getting approval from the boards and whatever, the effective rate is less than that: example being it might take ten hours to prep for something, you get paid for five. Or you end up litigating the thing twice, once for the LSA, once in Court.
It is especially significant that the administration cost of either each case, or each hour of lawyer time funded (I can't remember it clearly) has gone from just over a hundred dollars to $250: so due to the heap of admin crap being dealt with its LESS efficient than it was.
those rates are nothing compared to chargeout rates in private practice. Even a wet behind the ears (shit, wet all the way to the ground) new grad is charged out at $125/hr plus GST, and all they are good for is licking stamps and looking confused.
I do agree that legal aid is complete nightmare, but in my view the answer is pretty simple: remove waitangi treaty claims from coverage, or treat them like they do matrimonial property claims, as a loan to be repaid from the proceeds of settlements. that gets you about half the money back, just like that.
There will always be a need for indigent litigants, and criminals to be publicly funded: its our duty as citizens to provide it, so suck it up.
I doubt whether the current gummint has any stomach for it, but the idea of the office of the public defender (a lot of US jurisdictions have it) seems like a good one. Of course they get the same budget pressures the LSA does.
Hopefully you got the reaction you wanted.
I thought elections were decided by angry posts on social media. - F5 Dave
Slapper?
No doubt your quite happy to tick a square every 3 years,value for money is it?
Be the person your dog thinks you are...
Forum whore
Scourge of society. Self serving blood suckers with no practical use, and yes I'm gunna say it, worse than the coppers by many degrees.
Double shot!!
There are not many businesses that can survive with a gross turnover that low.
He will need to double that just to survive.
Steve
"I am a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."
"read what Steve says. He's right."
"What Steve said pretty much summed it up."
"I did axactly as you said and it worked...!!"
"Wow, Great advise there DB."
WTB: Hyosung bikes or going or not.
Forum whore
Not many bill that many hours a week, not unless they're working 60... 60-70% efficiency is about the norm.
'tart tourmenter
Just paid over $10k to the bloodsuckers at $250/hr for the lawyer & $150/hr for a legal executive who employ 1 legal secretary between them.
Fuck that hurt!
Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow arent just the 4 cycles of an engine
"channellling the Pleideans"
But it was obviously worth it, right? otherwise why would you continue?
I thought elections were decided by angry posts on social media. - F5 Dave
<<----- My dream bike.
Once you start spending money like that for a cause (whatever), to stop would be a very hard thing to do.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jamside down.
A cat glued to some jam toast will hover in quantum indecision
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat
Fix a computer and it'll break tomorrow.
Teach its owner to fix it and it'll break in some way you've never seen before.
<<----- My dream bike.
yep. Can't say iv'e met a lot of lawyers, buy the ones I have met have been far from the breadline. I'd say closer to the delicious French pastiesline..............If you catch my drift.
You don't often hear of poor lawyers. Sure they must exist, The Castle showed me that.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jamside down.
A cat glued to some jam toast will hover in quantum indecision
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat
Fix a computer and it'll break tomorrow.
Teach its owner to fix it and it'll break in some way you've never seen before.
"channellling the Pleideans"
mmmmm paaaaaaastriiiiiiiiiiiiiies. what were we talking about?yep. Can't say iv'e met a lot of lawyers, buy the ones I have met have been far from the breadline. I'd say closer to the delicious French pastiesline..............If you catch my drift.
You don't often hear of poor lawyers. Sure they must exist, The Castle showed me that.
The Castle is one of the best documentaries ever made.
I thought elections were decided by angry posts on social media. - F5 Dave
<<----- My dream bike.
Hahaha, yeah it sure is....
What do you know about lead?
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jamside down.
A cat glued to some jam toast will hover in quantum indecision
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat
Fix a computer and it'll break tomorrow.
Teach its owner to fix it and it'll break in some way you've never seen before.
Forum whore
And therein lies the rub.
Most who spend that kind of money with a lawyer bring the curse on themselves due to their own stupidity, lack of forethought or foresight or pig headedness.
To top it off, then want to blame the lawyer for it.
Hardcore Biker
Cos the legal system is set so that the layperson is very effectively shut out, if you try doing any legal stuff yourself, the other persons lawyers will screw you over.
There isn't really any viable alternative for him to use..... Don't pay the lawyers whatever they feel like billing you = getting hurt.
But just because that is so, it doesn't mean that the level of charges are fair on the client or even justified.
The (dis)honorable Nick Smith, when you speak all I can hear is
BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!!
So please fuck off and die.
Go Go, Ninja Dinosaur!!
"channellling the Pleideans"
I hate how the plumbing system is set up so the layperson is effectively shut out. If you try doing any plumbing stuff yourself you really get screwed over by councils and other plumbers fixing your cockups.
"whatever they feel like billing you": right. Last I noticed we are in a pretty competitive market place. I have lost jobs because someone quoted lower (and to be honest, been glad to see them go: people focussed only on price tend to be very difficult clients indeed).
What is "Fair on the client"? "justified" to whom?
Think of it this way: You ride a Ducati 1198R Troy Bayliss replica no 26 of 200 made (RRP $46000USD). Where do you take it to be serviced/fettled/tuned? Bubbas Moorsickles where a large man with a fag in one corner of his mouth and the biggest hammer you've ever seen says "sure, ah ken fux it, but it sure is a funny lookin Harley, must be onea them v rods I seen a pitcher of". Or do you take it to the dealership with the appropriate tooling, accreditation, investment in trained personnel and equipment, and get it done right?
Most people's experience of lawyers and lawyering is based on stuff they think is easy: buying or selling residential property, or maybe making a will, or dealing with Mum or Dad's estate. So as you see it, its "just a bunch of forms to be filled out, and sign where the stickers are:anyone can do that yet they charge so much".
That isnt all we do, nor is it really what you're paying for: what I tell all our new graduates is this: You are a plumber. You get paid to do stuff people can't or won't do themselves: a lot of people dont like being in shit up to their elbows, but you're getting paid so roll your sleeves up and get stuck in.
Its not magic, but it is specialized, it does require a lot of investment, and yes, it costs. But the service provided is worth money, otherwise we'd all be starving. And I'm doing OK, thanks for asking.
And no, I wont be baited into responding again.*
*never say never
I thought elections were decided by angry posts on social media. - F5 Dave
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