Cornering

[p.dath]

I have written an article on cornering:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/wiki/Cornering

But I don't have sufficient experience to really fill it out. So I have created a section for beginners, and filled that out with what I know. I'm hoping to only put the most important bits in here so as to not overload those just learning.

I create a second section for advanced riders, and need someone who knows more about vanishing points and the like to fill it out.

[cowboyz]

Quoted from Wiki.

Before entering the corner try to select the correct gear and appropriate entry speed.
dont try. Do.
Try to avoid braking or changing gear during the corner as it can tend to stand the bike back up again, which makes it much harder to turn.
ok. this is fair enough
Try to enter "tighter" corners at higher revs.
Losing me.....
Higher revs mean you can poor on speed faster if you run into an issue, and some bikes become more stable as they sit down in their suspension better.
hmmm. and some bikes become more stable as ones knee is dragging on the road.....
Not good advice dude. especially for a beginner cornering.. Way too much to think about. To start with... You dont need to be doing high revs to settle the bike. And all that will end up happening is a shut of the throttle and engine braking will result in dipping the bike or a lowside.

Enter the corner from the outside. Stay there (refer exit strategy below). Turning in too soon is a really common problem. It is often a good idea on a road to not ride right on the outside, as this leaves you a little bit of room if things turn to custard (e,g. you spot gravel on the outside of the road, perhaps some obstacle). If you leave a little bit of room you create more options in an emergency. On the track you can ride all the way to the outside, but its not as safe to do so on a road for a beginner.
I see what you are trying to say but not real comfotable with the way you are saying it.

Look to where you want to go (many beginners look straight ahead or down at the road).
yep. be careful you are looking *through* the corner not *at* the corner.
Once you can see your way through the exit of the corner turn in and you can start applying more throttle again. Don't turn in until you can see your way through the exit on a road because you often can't predict where the apex of the corner is (exit can be blind at the point of entry so you can't be sure where it is).
Completely lost me here??! You saying if the corners blind you shouldnt start turning in and run off the road? You ride a zooki huh?

(ok that zooki comment was a pisstake as well as the kneedown but the rest is valid)

[CookMySock]

I don't think it's right to coach newbies to apex corners.

You aren't teaching them to race - you are explaining the basics about safe motorcycle operation.

The exercises are ;

. basic steering with the bars
. discipline and accuracy - cast an imaginary line on the road and follow it
. where to look and why
. problems often encountered, ala
. a. running wide
. b. brain lockup
. c. encountering an obstacle - swerve and/or brake
. d. too tight a grip on the bars - technical description included


Apexing is not useful for for newbies unless the goal is to increase speed, or as an emergency procedure if they find themselves entering a corner way too quick, and what often happens if they survive that corner, is they are way overloaded and screw the following corner up irretrievably.

Steve

[The Stranger:Me]

Can't wait until katman sees this.

[Sidewinder]

I don't think it's right to coach newbies to apex corners.

You aren't teaching them to race - you are explaining the basics about safe motorcycle operation.

The exercises are ;

. basic steering with the bars
. discipline and accuracy - cast an imaginary line on the road and follow it
. where to look and why
. problems often encountered, ala
. a. running wide
. b. brain lockup
. c. encountering an obstacle - swerve and/or brake
. d. too tight a grip on the bars - technical description included


Apexing is not useful for for newbies unless the goal is to increase speed, or as an emergency procedure if they find themselves entering a corner way too quick, and what often happens if they survive that corner, is they are way overloaded and screw the following corner up irretrievably.

Steve

apex? nah you dont need them! its road riding, so on a right hand coner you hit the apex? and let an oncoming car hit you? just keep the inside line and you have more run off and you take the shorter rout and get around the corner faster than the homo try to get to an apex

[NDORFN]

apex? nah you dont need them! its road riding, so on a right hand coner you hit the apex? and let an oncoming car hit you? just keep the inside line and you have more run off and you take the shorter rout and get around the corner faster than the homo try to get to an apex

Exactly, and on top of which, begginers should be riding the safest road surface, which is generally the inside line because it's least likely to have grit or gravel, it's the least worn part of the road as all the weight of four wheeled vehicles is transferred to the outside wheels, and because it gives the maximum room for error if the rider overshoots. I think the only thing a novice rider needs to go over theoretically before just plain old practising themselves into competent riding is the fundimentals of counter-steering, and looking ahead to where you want to go.

[NZsarge]

Can't wait until katman sees this.

a huh..

[CookMySock]

I think the only thing a novice rider needs to go over theoretically before just plain old practising themselves into competent riding is the fundimentals of counter-steering, and looking ahead to where you want to go.

Yup. I think things like "ensuring their bodys' centre of mass is inside the bikes center of mass" are critical concepts though, and should be introduced shortly after the basic countersteer is mastered.

I do suggest the safest place is the right-hand half lane. But in a tight right-hander this pushes their head over the centreline, or their wheels into the center of the lane - emphatically not workable when there is opposing traffic or grit in the center of the lane.

Steve

[boomer]

I do suggest the safest place is the right-hand half lane. But in a tight right-hander this pushes their head over the centreline, or their wheels into the center of the lane

does this stuff get put in the wiki.. i fookin hope not.. Tell me mr international, how does the bikes wheels end up over the centre line when all the forces experienced going round a right hander push the bike and rider out to the left..??

jeez i wonder sometimes.

[Sidewinder]

Yup. I think things like "ensuring their bodys' centre of mass is inside the bikes center of mass" are critical concepts though, and should be introduced shortly after the basic countersteer is mastered.

I do suggest the safest place is the right-hand half lane. But in a tight right-hander this pushes their head over the centreline, or their wheels into the center of the lane - emphatically not workable when there is opposing traffic or grit in the center of the lane.

Steve

there is they old saying, SLOW DOWN! its just like dont put on the front brakes mid coner or it will stand the bike up and you'll run wide and or tuck the front instead you ride the rear brake and it will turn you into the corner even more and will get you through alot safer if the need to brake arises!

[Sidewinder]

does this stuff get put in the wiki.. i fookin hope not.. Tell me mr international, how does the bikes wheels end up over the centre line when all the forces experienced going round a right hander push the bike and rider out to the left..??

jeez i wonder sometimes.

oi jonny english i think i he said lane not line!

[p.dath]

does this stuff get put in the wiki.. i fookin hope not..

It doesn't go into the wiki until someone makes the effort of going over there and actually changing it.

Because things like cornering and braking are rather contentious issues they get discussed here and the article formed.

[Sidewinder]

and dont listen to people that say doing trackdays make you a better rider, a rider training day does but a trackday just makes you ride faster and you are on good seal, well some of the time (taupo lol) and then you get on the roadm and try to ride the same and it just doesn't work that well for some people

[p.dath]

...
Try to enter "tighter" corners at higher revs.
Losing me.....
Higher revs mean you can poor on speed faster if you run into an issue, and some bikes become more stable as they sit down in their suspension better.
hmmm. and some bikes become more stable as ones knee is dragging on the road.....
Not good advice dude. especially for a beginner cornering.. Way too much to think about. To start with... You dont need to be doing high revs to settle the bike. And all that will end up happening is a shut of the throttle and engine braking will result in dipping the bike or a lowside.

Enter the corner from the outside. Stay there (refer exit strategy below). Turning in too soon is a really common problem. It is often a good idea on a road to not ride right on the outside, as this leaves you a little bit of room if things turn to custard (e,g. you spot gravel on the outside of the road, perhaps some obstacle). If you leave a little bit of room you create more options in an emergency. On the track you can ride all the way to the outside, but its not as safe to do so on a road for a beginner.
I see what you are trying to say but not real comfotable with the way you are saying it.

Once you can see your way through the exit of the corner turn in and you can start applying more throttle again. Don't turn in until you can see your way through the exit on a road because you often can't predict where the apex of the corner is (exit can be blind at the point of entry so you can't be sure where it is). [/COLOR]
Completely lost me here??! You saying if the corners blind you shouldnt start turning in and run off the road? You ride a zooki huh?

(ok that zooki comment was a pisstake as well as the kneedown but the rest is valid)

I've removed the comment about using higher revs in corners, as it seems this is not a commonly held view or is a contentious view.

I've re-written the last bit about the exit strategy to make it easier to understand.

[boomer]

oi jonny english i think i he said lane not line!

fair call.

he's still a muppet tho.