Encouraging ACC to support Trackdays in NZ

[scott411]

ACC are promoting a advance rider day at hampton downs, they have been in here with advertising material for it,

[Genestho]

ACC are promoting a advance rider day at hampton downs, they have been in here with advertising material for it,

Ah thanks! I might mention that at my meeting! That'll be a different region, I suspect.
How recent was that mate? I'm also hoping I could make this happen more than once, and at more than one track.

[Squiggles]

They support rider training days, but i wouldnt want them coughing up $$ for trackdays

[Squiggles]

Ah thanks! I might mention that at my meeting! That'll be a different region, I suspect.
How recent was that mate? I'm also hoping I could make this happen more than once, and at more than one track.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...&postcount=143
I was sent it by the Auckland ACC reps a week or two ago

[Genestho]

They support rider training days, but i wouldnt want them coughing up $$ for trackdays

Ah ok, I don't know enough about how far they support trackdays, never heard of it!

I was asked yesterday - how can ACC promote something through your BADD event, come prepared with some ideas, so thinking Trackdays were not already promoted through ACC, thought I'd go that route, along side Group Riding info and safe gear info.

I thought maybe utilising Steve's (DB) idea, that perhaps we could have some freestuff at the BADD Event (some free trackday passes - maybe even spot prizes), and promote all track day events for the next year, big Poster, calendar dates on it, which club, which track.
It's just a promo moment at an event. But promoting Trackdays to youth riders, long term rather than one offs.

[red675]

One area not covered so far is insurance company support for trackdays - Star (amongst others) is covering its policyholders for specific trackday organisers who have demonstrated that controls on behaviour are in place and being enforced, ie: not a no rules environment but one where tuition is available and bad behaviour rewarded accordingly.

I would have thought the ACC's and insurance companies' concerns overlapped perfectly.

[sondela]

Theres little or no point supporting "proper" road riding training. Average joe motorcycle rider doesn't need to know how countersteer deep into a corner or advanced braking, because he shouldn't be doing that - he should just slow down. Any higher-end skills are lost after two weeks because theres not enough repitition or the rider just does have the nuts to try it, or a safe environment.

Basic roadcraft is basic roadcraft, and 99% of people already have that. The ones that dont have it probably can't be taught it, or just dont give a fuck.

The ones to target, are those who WANT to speed and hare around like an idiot. Let them go for it where there is nothing to hit. If they fall off, they fuck their bike and bend their little finger backwards.. shrug.

ACC could offer vouchers for track time. Just write in and ask for them.

Steve

Sorry, gotta disagree, I spun my (rear wheel drive) car out in the rain awhile back, and it happened because I had no idea what I ought to have done, so I did it wrong

went and did a defensive driving course and learned about what to do, and what not to do, so now if I lose traction again, I have some idea how to react (if you do a practical, it stays in your brain!)!

It's important to be told what to do, so if there's an emergency you can try at least to get it right.

Riding bikes isn't instinctive, it needs to be taught and everyone needs to be taught how to do it properly..

[PaddyFZ1]

ACC are promoting a advance rider day at hampton downs, they have been in here with advertising material for it,

The Training day at Hampton downs is being run by the Hamilton Motorcycle Club. Sold out already. 160 places. I attended the same event that was held at Taupo last year.
I found it a great help. I wouldnt class myself as a noob, been riding on and off for nearly 20 years, and what i was able to pick up from that training day, ive been passing on to any one that wants help.
This has been a great help and i recommend a track based, road training day for all riders.

[dubshack]

One big challenge that I can see is who can administer training.
Most guys at most track days are not qualified or certified to train anybody. They are "experienced" riders who are "helping" the less experienced.
How about having the ACC certify training organisations and once a rider has attended one of these certified events then there is some benefit to them. It can't be registration discounts as people will register their bikes to Dad who did the course etc
I have a huge interest in this as I am behind bringing the California Superbike School to NZ. Those that don't know, this school is regarded as the best in the world and quite simply the one that every other school is trying to copy or using the technology developed by its founder, Keith Code. We have had over 150,000 students attend from relatively new riders through to world champions.
In the USA it is now compulsory for all US Marines that want to ride a bike to attend a school that was developed specifically for them by Keith. This is because they lose more marines in motorcycle accidents they they do at war.

I am a huge fan of training riders but the trainers must be certified. As ride coaches for the CSS we are not certified by any government. We are certified by Keith so I don't know how that would go down either. I would also like to stand up and say that ride coaches from CSS are the best in the world. We have the history to prove that.

I am happy to help with this in any way possible.

[Genestho]

One big challenge that I can see is who can administer training.
Most guys at most track days are not qualified or certified to train anybody. They are "experienced" riders who are "helping" the less experienced.
How about having the ACC certify training organisations and once a rider has attended one of these certified events then there is some benefit to them. It can't be registration discounts as people will register their bikes to Dad who did the course etc
I have a huge interest in this as I am behind bringing the California Superbike School to NZ. Those that don't know, this school is regarded as the best in the world and quite simply the one that every other school is trying to copy or using the technology developed by its founder, Keith Code. We have had over 150,000 students attend from relatively new riders through to world champions.
In the USA it is now compulsory for all US Marines that want to ride a bike to attend a school that was developed specifically for them by Keith. This is because they lose more marines in motorcycle accidents they they do at war.

I am a huge fan of training riders but the trainers must be certified. As ride coaches for the CSS we are not certified by any government. We are certified by Keith so I don't know how that would go down either. I would also like to stand up and say that ride coaches from CSS are the best in the world. We have the history to prove that.

I am happy to help with this in any way possible.

The point you raise about certification vs experienced is very valid, and could be a good reason as to why ACC would NOT promote something like Trackdays - if there's absence of certification or NZTA Approval, I wondered about that.

BUT in saying that I can feel intial interest, I know the benefits have been noted, along with training for schoolies.

I'm aware of the Californian Superbike School, its arrival to NZ, and also aware of the US Marines having to be schooled. I followed Kevin Schwantz's involvement in this.
So are you saying CSS is not certified by the US Govt either?

TBH I don't think ACC would have the jurisdiction to certify.

I think there would be a need to be "NZTA approved" maybe to have full ACC backing.

I guess it's worth asking about though. But I would be interested in knowing more info of the CSS certifications, particularly because of the obvious interest and scope in the US!

[sleemanj]

I think that for ACC to consider "trackdays" as supportable that there would need to be some study undertaken to show if attendance at "trackdays" has any noticable effect on the average accident rate amongst those riders.

Now, I think I would be pretty cautious about such a study, because I could see how it could backfire and actually show the opposite, people who attend "trackdays" may well be more prone to accidents on the public roads, for a number of reasons I could imagine.

Organised, specific, advanced rider training particularly with a public road speed and conditions focus, conducted by qualified professionals, I can see that ACC would absolutely be interested in because I doubt there is any question that such training improves the accident rate.

As others have said, ACC is a company, they are looking for a return on investment, not subsidising fun.

[Genestho]

I see what you're saying, but I'm not talking about ACC subsidising anything at this point.
If they were to explore subsidising I suspect you'd be right.


What I'm talking about is using my event, inviting ACC to promote getting youth riders off the road and onto the track, if the main cause of crashes are speed - utilising ACC resources.

The other main causes being alcohol - well I'll have that covered, and promoted, inexperience - training - that's covered to a point until other intiatives are explored - by Ride Right Ride Safe.

And safe gear, hi vis.

Last year the ACC Motorcycling Campaign was "Watch out for Motorcyclists" aimed at car drivers, now it's aimed at Motorcyclists and responsibilty for ones own safety.

All up for discussion anyway

[James Deuce]

I see what you're saying, but I'm not talking about ACC subsidising anything at this point.
If they were to explore subsidising I suspect you'd be right.


What I'm talking about is using my event, inviting ACC to promote getting youth riders off the road and onto the track, if the main cause of crashes are speed - utilising ACC resources.

The other main causes being alcohol - well I'll have that covered, and promoted, inexperience - training - that's covered to a point until other intiatives are explored - by Ride Right Ride Safe.

And safe gear, hi vis.

Last year the ACC Motorcycling Campaign was "Watch out for Motorcyclists" aimed at car drivers, now it's aimed at Motorcyclists and responsibilty for ones own safety.

All up for discussion anyway

It's not youth crashing at high speed on the road. Have a close look at the accident stats (I know you do anyway ).

Hi-vis clothing doesn't work. The issue with riders and bikes not being seen is a psycho-physiological issue and needs intensive education to overcome it. The best approach is the 'Look for bikes" campaign combined with compulsory oobservation skills as part of any rider or driver training. The mass delusion that Hi-vis vests make people more visible is of greater concern to me than young blokes/ettes riding in t-shirts, jeans and sneakers.

[dubshack]

One thing that I would recommend that you push for is a tougher driving test for car and licenses. One that requires some real driver training and actually possessing some skills before you can drive on the road.
The supermarket carpark should be enough to demonstrate that too many drivers in NZ simply can't do the basics let alone drive on the open road.

[Genestho]

It's not youth crashing at high speed on the road. Have a close look at the accident stats (I know you do anyway ).

Hi-vis clothing doesn't work. The issue with riders and bikes not being seen is a psycho-physiological issue and needs intensive education to overcome it. The best approach is the 'Look for bikes" campaign combined with compulsory oobservation skills as part of any rider or driver training. The mass delusion that Hi-vis vests make people more visible is of greater concern to me than young blokes/ettes riding in t-shirts, jeans and sneakers.

Ok Ok, I've had sleep, and thunk on it, I'm not feeling the love for promoting Trackdays, I'll still suggest promoting Trackdays or something similar (Obstinate tart Arn't I? )

Look out for Motorcyclists is a campaign I too, wish was kept up, as you're right.
However though, as there's a turn in the stat's showing rider error the campaign this year is aimed at this. BUT....

I don't how many times we or friends, were on the road, and U turned on, or cut in front of, etc etc... we had our own ideas how to work with that - a plan to bail on a sign, quick thinking and defensive riding saved us on more than one occasion, we wore gear every where, headlight on in daylight, even just up the road, too easy!!!

Unfortunately good gear and a headlight did naff all, when faced with a random vehicle, out of control, just around a corner, and being the second bike to impact - the first bike, bodies and car were already exploding, debri flying everywhere, and no time to process a plan we'd used many times before.

I'm sure there must be an existing resource for that campaign, trouble is, my event is aimed at Motorcyclists, and Motorcyclists are already courteous to bikes when in a car!

How we can promote that to general public - I'd have to think about.

The Right Gear/Hi Vis stuff will be promoted, as it's a cynch. (Sorry JD I know you're anti this!!)