ACC - How to get the nation's motorbike bill down

**Pixie** · 7th September 2009, 08:13

Originally Posted by p.dath

They already tell you what helmet to wear ...
They tell you what standard you bike has to reach before you can take it on a road ...
They tell you how much your allowed to drink before riding ...

And you pay them to do it - I'm just trying to reduce how much we are paying.

It seems your happy with what you pay them, you just want less talk from "them". haha.

Can ACC and get some competition into the personal insurance industry

**Pixie** · 7th September 2009, 08:15

Originally Posted by p.dath

Lets never do that. That is the US system, and it is far worse than ours.

Lets stick with our ACC no fault system. While we all complain, it isn't that bad.

Very happy to work on reducing the cost of accident care and what we pay though!

You've fallen for the bullshit like 99% of other kiwis

**MarkH** · 7th September 2009, 10:00

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

What difference would it make to you? You wear full gear anyway... Why the angst?

Steve

I agree with Big Dave - legislation for gear has the potential to be expensive and a thoroughly fucked up thing.

If they legislate and say that I MUST wear a jacket with a NZ safety rating then what do I do with my current leather jacket with hard armour? I like my jacket and I paid a lot of money to buy it - I don't want to be told that I can't wear it because it doesn't have the new rating that they just made up!

The same applies to my gloves (2 pairs - summer & winter), my boots (2 pairs), my leather pants, my back protector & my Dragin' jeans.

You could say that the Government should bring in a new law, but not fuck it up. But that is like saying I should buy a Lotto ticket, but not one that doesn't win the 1st division powerball. If they bring in a new law then the odds are that they WILL fuck it up!

**Genestho** · 7th September 2009, 10:29

I support Encouraging wearing the Gear, and Education.

I believe that would prevent some injuries, particularly scooterists, which are part of statistics for Motorcyclists.

Addressing this, I will be ticking that box in three "Safer Journey's" submissions with three groups, along with better targeted crash stat's.

I wouldn't support legislation.

From what I see, there will be no legislation, merely promotion of the idea of wearing the right gear.

Unless people are lobbying hard for legislation? If there is, I haven't heard of it, myself (could be wrong)

I'd be so bold as to suggest, I can't see legislation introduced addressing this, for many reasons.

**Jantar** · 7th September 2009, 10:43

Originally Posted by p.dath

...It was said previously, a minor accident costs about $61k, a serious accident costs a bit over $500k.

That is Social Cost, not ACC cost. You will need to get an economist to explain Social Cost as I haven't see a robust definition for it.

**Genestho** · 7th September 2009, 10:56

Originally Posted by Jantar

That is Social Cost, not ACC cost. You will need to get an economist to explain Social Cost as I haven't see a robust definition for it.

This is the willingness to pay based value of statistical life.

Questions and Answers relating to Social Costs Paper

2006, 07 and 08 Reports

"The average value of a loss of life is estimated by the amount of money that the members of the New Zealand population would be willing to pay for a safety improvement that results in the expected avoidance of one premature death. It is a measure of the pain, suffering and loss of life component of the social cost.

The value of statistical life (VOSL) was established at $2 million in 1991, following a willingness to pay (WTP) survey carried out during 1989/1990. It is indexed to average hourly earnings (ordinary time) to express the value in current prices. The same VOSL has been used in all safety evaluations across all three transport modes (road, maritime and aviation), as decided by the Government in 1991 (NZ Gazette notice 4983).

Medical costs can be further broken down into emergency costs, medical/hospital treatment costs and follow-on costs. Legal costs include crash investigation, imprisonment and court costs."

**Big Dave** · 7th September 2009, 11:01

Where there's a Will there's a Solicitor.

**Genestho** · 7th September 2009, 11:03

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Where there's a Will there's a Solicitor.

boomtish. I'm out of bling! Some heading your way in 24 hours!!

**MarkH** · 7th September 2009, 12:58

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Where there's a Will there's a Solicitor.

Where there's a will - I want to be in it!

**Kickaha** · 7th September 2009, 17:41

Originally Posted by p.dath

They might not have an accident 999 times. But that 1 in a thousand event could result in a massive ACC bill.

Could isn't the same as will

**Hitcher** · 7th September 2009, 18:05

I present as Exhibit A in this discussion, the most litigious nation on Earth: the United States of America. Unlike New Zealand, the land of the free and the home of the brave doesn't have a no-fault accident compensation scheme.

The ground is just as hard in the US and heads just as soft as they are in New Zealand. Granted, some of their roads are better than ours and their car drivers remarkably well behaved in terms of how they treat motorcyclists.

But, if some of the comments made earlier in this thread were to have credence, then every American biker would be seen decked out in some uber-fluoro-inflatable-reflective-kevlar-bulletproof-buttplug-integrated-fuck-off-noddy protective apparel. Not so. Many American bikers think that Dot Snell is the deputy Governor of Arkansas.

From memory fewer than 10 states in that Great Nation have compulsory helmet laws, and the trend in recent years has been for helmet-wearing states to relax their requirements, rather than the opposite.

Make of that what you will.

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 7th September 2009, 23:36

Originally Posted by Hitcher

But, if some of the comments made earlier in this thread were to have credence, then every American biker would be seen decked out in some uber-fluoro-inflatable-reflective-kevlar-bulletproof-buttplug-integrated-fuck-off-noddy protective apparel.

Don't forget the bubble wrap... gotta have bubble wrap...

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what we the people say... they will just make it law any way... Look at the smacking law 87% said no and they don't have to change a thing if they don't want too... is that democracy?

**p.dath** · 7th September 2009, 23:39

I've created a poll for this thread:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d.php?t=107219

**p.dath** · 7th September 2009, 23:42

Originally Posted by Hitcher

I present as Exhibit A in this discussion, the most litigious nation on Earth: the United States of America. Unlike New Zealand, the land of the free and the home of the brave doesn't have a no-fault accident compensation scheme.

The ground is just as hard in the US and heads just as soft as they are in New Zealand. Granted, some of their roads are better than ours and their car drivers remarkably well behaved in terms of how they treat motorcyclists.

But, if some of the comments made earlier in this thread were to have credence, then every American biker would be seen decked out in some uber-fluoro-inflatable-reflective-kevlar-bulletproof-buttplug-integrated-fuck-off-noddy protective apparel. Not so. Many American bikers think that Dot Snell is the deputy Governor of Arkansas.

From memory fewer than 10 states in that Great Nation have compulsory helmet laws, and the trend in recent years has been for helmet-wearing states to relax their requirements, rather than the opposite.

Make of that what you will.

They also have incredibly expensive private medical insurance, and you pretty much have to have private liability insurance as well.

I have a doctor living in my street. I think they said there insurance premium for being a doctor in the US was $320k per annum - because of the high likelihood of being sued.

So as long as you don't mind paying drastically higher insurance, then you can have more freedoms.