Learner conditions - discussion and poll

[FROSTY:Me]

Open road riding in the restricted test: Just a bit of motorway, isn't it? And in the road code i believe it says the 70kph restriction is ignored in the restricted test

show me where it says that in the road code --gwan I dare ya

[Owl]

show me where it says that in the road code --gwan I dare ya

If he won't or can't, then I'll oblige!

Part 3 marked *

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/mot...ding-test.html

[BiK3RChiK]

Frosty has the right idea I reckon...

I think the 70km/hr restriction is a joke! Following an L-plater this morning in my work vehicle, cars were stacked up behind said L-plater and 'tutor/companion rider' and were following WAY too close and passing and squashing in between L-plater and said 'tutor/companion rider'. I backed way off because to me it was a massive recipe for disaster for the motorcyclists. My turn-off was coming up soon, so I lost sight of them from then on.

My 0.10c....

[Neon]

show me where it says that in the road code --gwan I dare ya

I'll do better than that. Here is the piece of legislation that confirms it is fine -

"Conditions of learner licence
(1) The holder of a learner licence of a particular class is authorised to drive a vehicle to which that class of licence relates if the holder complies with the following conditions:
(a) The holder must not drive the vehicle (unless driving a motorcycle, moped, or an all-terrain vehicle) unless the holder is accompanied in the vehicle by a person who—
(i) Holds, and has held for at least 2 years, a full licence of a class that authorises that person to drive that vehicle; and
(ii) Is in charge of the vehicle; and
(iii) Is seated in the front passenger seat or, if there is no front passenger seat available, is seated as close as is practicable to the driver; and
(b) in the case of a Class 1L licence, where the holder is driving a car, the holder must display on the vehicle an “L” plate as specified in clause 66:
(c) in the case of a Class 1L or Class 6L licence, where the holder is riding a moped, the holder—
(i) must display on the vehicle an “L” plate as specified in clause 66; and
(ii) must not drive between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am; and
(iii) must not carry another person on the moped or in a sidecar attached to the moped:
(d) in the case of a Class 6L licence, where the holder is riding a motorcycle, the holder—
(i) must display on the vehicle an “L” plate as specified in clause 66; and
(ii) must not—
(A) drive between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am; or
(B) drive at a speed exceeding 70 km/h, unless taking the restricted licence test for a Class 6R licence under clause 48(5); or
(C) drive a motorcycle that has a total piston displacement exceeding 250 cm3; or
(D) carry another person on the motorcycle or in a sidecar attached to the motorcycle
(2) The conditions imposed under this clause are in addition to any conditions imposed on the licence holder under Part 9."



Any cop that tells you otherwise can stick it.

[Neon]

I have to say that I'm inclined to agree wholeheartedly with Frosty on this one. The 70km/h restriction is included - in much the same way as the requirement for learner car drivers to have a 'supervisor' - to encourage a skill base to be built gradually and sensibly over a period of time.

Why do new riders 'expect' to be able to ride anywhere they like at any time? How is it any different to the process learning to drive a car? The main difference is that the stakes are higher. Bikes are unforgiving like that.

When I got my 6L, even with 12 years of driving experience behind me I had enough to worry about just controlling the fucking bike, let alone worrying about the traffic around me. I can't even begin to imagine how total noobs to the road can process all that information. So yeah, I think a 70km/h limit is reasonable on a 6L.

People learn at different speeds, may be more or less physically capable in terms of handling the machine, and could be well ready to ride at higher speeds at a time in advance of their license period being completed - and you would hope they would be.

However, you only have to do it once. Suck it up. Do your time, wear your L plate proudly, focus on developing your skills (it's frightening how many riders of many years 'experience' cannot handle low speed manoeuvres and carpark drills competently) and then move on when the time comes.

Until there is a more holistic testing system that rewards training and true skill-based assessment (and is therefore not time dependent), the system is what it is.

Oh, and blatantly ignoring the law ain't gonna to nowt other than confirm that bikers are a nuisance on the road and should be legislated off the road once and for all. If you think you're 'fighting the power' you are, honestly, kidding yo' self. okey:

[CookMySock]

+ severe penalties for speeding or dangerous driving for learners.

Steve

[davebullet]

The curfew rule has amused me. It's intent is to stop young people going out at night an hooning around. I can see no other purpose for it. The night doesn't get any darker (apart from mid summer in Southland) after 10:30 at night and, with less traffic around, it should be safer to ride during that period than at other times.

When I am King, caravans and campervans will only be allowed out between 11:00pm and 5:00am. Seriously.

No no, you've got it all wrong... It's there to protect the learner rider from ice in the middle of winter. We all know at 5:01am the ice has melted and you can cane it around all corners without risk.

[Tink]

i voted no pillions, no speed restriction, yes L plate, yes hp limit.
any more seems to nanna but im open to discusion

didn't quite get the more than one option doh

That's true but how many youtube vids are there of noobs getting on large capacity bikes, spinning up the back wheel, dropping, crashing and/or highsiding because they couldn't handle the power? Apply too much acceleration in a car and you don't exactly fall over.



This is true, I've pillioned in the early hours and it is much nicer.

I would like to learn at night... when I was 15 learning on the motorway never happened... my dad had no prob putting me in a cage at 15 and a bike at 3... on the roads... experience comes with doing!

Display the "L" so others are aware you're new on the contraption and give consideration as required.
No Pillions - putting yourself in denager is enough while learning
HP restriction - them big bikes'll kill ya in an "OH SHIT" heartbeat

L PLATES no matter how noob they look are important.. good call....JOHN WRIGHT... a great teacher in my eyes from London stated kiwi cages can't drive a car while comlimenting bikes... I tend to agree.....

SOOOOOOOOOOOO

5 questions in the NZ Rode Code for CAGES learning to drive ABOUT HOW TO REACT TO BIKES, WATCH FOR BIKES, BEHAVE AROUND BIKES, BIKE RULES, AND BIKE REACTIONS... ETC... PLUS. They are not the only ones on the road, paying road taxes... truck drivers...etc... included

[PirateJafa]

How is it fair that someone on a 1L can legally drive a WRX STI but someone on a 6L can't legally ride anything bigger than a 250cc?

What are you, an idiot? A 1L license carries DIFFERENT restrictions instead, like the requirement to have a 2year+ fully licensed passenger.

You, on the other hand, can ride your bike on your 6L all by your lonesome. Gain on one hand, lose on the other - it balances out.

[retro asian]

I think that 400cc is a decent sized limit for learners. e.g a Yamaha Dragstar 400 would've been a mean bike to start off with, I probably wouldn't have ditched it in 10 months, like I did with my VL250.

A 400 doesn't have too much power, would be a bit smoother to ride than a 250 and is more practical for touring and open road speeds etc.

[PirateJafa]

I think that 400cc is a decent sized limit for learners. e.g a Yamaha Dragstar 400 would've been a mean bike to start off with, I probably wouldn't have ditched it in 10 months, like I did with my VL250.

A 400 doesn't have too much power, would be a bit smoother to ride than a 250 and is more practical for touring and open road speeds etc.

Maybe a 250cc 4cyl, 400cc twin limit.

I don't think that making bikes that can exceed the open-road speed limit in their first gear alone is a particularly wise idea. 250cc is enough to be forgiving for a learner.

[yungatart]

Can we please get rid of the anomaly that allows people on a car licence to ride an underpowered scooter?
They have no idea of the hazards, no training, no two wheeled road craft and are a huge danger to themselves and others, puttering along, as they do, right up your arse in your blind spot.

[FROSTY:Me]

well Ill be ferked--THERE IS exception when sitting a restricted.
Frosty fucked it up.
holey cow so did the senior cop
Now that makes totally NO sense at all.
I stand behind the whole 70km/h limit thing
But thats insanity.
How can you possibly demonstrate competence at something you have never done?

Incidently I disagree with yungatart-Lets think a bit beyond the here and now for a minute.
If you can get a SCOOTER licence at 15 but a bike at 16 and a car at 17doesn't it stand to reason that there will a whole generation of kids who have done time on bikes. Follow that through to conclusion. There will then be an entire generation of DRIVERS who are scooter/bike aware. Now as annoying as scooters can be again its another bunch of drivers that are a bit more bike aware -for a little while

[MSTRS:Me]

I stand behind the whole 70km/h limit thing
But thats insanity.
How can you possibly demonstrate competence at something you have never done?

As I said in the 'other' thread...

The problem with this is that to gain a 6L, all you have to do is prove a modicum of bike control in a carpark at walking speed and pass a road rules scratchy. You are then allowed to join the traffic at up to 70kph. Where was the test that you could handle that?

[MSTRS:Me]

If you can get a SCOOTER licence at 15 but a bike at 16 and a car at 17doesn't it stand to reason that there will a whole generation of kids who have done time on bikes. Follow that through to conclusion. There will then be an entire generation of DRIVERS who are scooter/bike aware. Now as annoying as scooters can be again its another bunch of drivers that are a bit more bike aware -for a little while

Now this has a lot of merit.

I'd go a step further and propose the following...

If it's a 2 wheeled vehicle, then a 6-class licence is mandatory.
Conditions to start at -
1. Display L*
2. No pillions
3. HP restriction
4. Speed/Road restriction
5. Hours restriction

Split the stages for motorcycles into 4 -
1/. Learner: Day-glo orange L*, All conditions, 3 month minimum
2/. Advanced? Learner: Yellow L*, Conditions 1/2/3, 3 month minimum
3/. Restricted: Conditions 2/3, 12 months reduceable to 6 months with successful completion of suitable rider's course.
4/. Open

Ideally, I'd like to see an increased HP rating at the restricted level, but that would be overly fussy.