Warning- for when you up the pace.

[MSTRS:Me]

Lol, another bloody word nazi ... So you didn't mean it to happen, it's an accident? I doubt people go out on their bikes with that aim in mind lol... therefore every crash is an accident unless you're actively going out to crash?

No. Accident consists of many meanings, including unforeseen and unavoidable. Patently, this is not the case in most crashes. Therefore, although intent does not form part of the event, it is not an accident.

[Katman]

The word 'accident' is defined by the word 'unintentional' - not by the word 'unavoidable'.

As MSTRS has pointed out, there are very few accidents that are unavoidable.

[MSTRS:Me]

The word 'accident' is defined by the word 'unintentional' - not by the word 'unavoidable'..

Your application for membership in the BDOTGNZA is under consideration...

[mashman]

Its not only about speed. Its about HOW you are riding. Whether you are pushing the limits. If you have teh throttle wide open, teh chances are higher of your tyre breaking away. The buffer is smaller.

If you are accelerating hard as the road splits to two lanes, and a car pulls in front of you, the buffer is lower. If you are accelarating gently, the buffer is bigger.

No bullshit. Fact.

Yes there will be incidents that will clear any buffer zones you have (like diesel on a corner or whatever).

The buffer may be smaller, but it's still there and if i'm still within it, according to you and Katman, I should be fine and not have to worry about having an accident... The buffer theory is flawed, in fact flawed to the point where complaicency sets in...

Now who is spouting bullshit. Why do you think you would be more likely to misjudge things? Because you are going too fast or because you are under high G's from acceleration or hard braking? Nobody ever lost control on a corner (outside of external influences like diesel on the road) because they were riding well within their personal comfort zone. Yet according to ACC there seems to be 50% 9rather significant "statistical" number dont you think?) of bike accidents out there that are single vehicle accidents where the rider has lost control all by themself. I suggest that they were ALL pushing their boundaries. Bad idea on the road.

You're quoting BULLSHIT ACC statistics to backup your accusation that i'm spouting bullshit argument instantly moot. The difference is, these guys may well have been nowhere near their boundaries/limits/capabilities... it was just the wrong day to go aroundh that corner for the 3496th time...

No- only your own. but you do that by being honest about what is affecting your risk in the first place.

Correct. But your risk and my risk are completely different and we may well take exactly the same things into consideration, this is how futile managing risk is. Be careful (managing risk) ios all that should be asked of anyone, because 1 moments lapse and it could be your last. Doesn't mean it will be, you may just have another squeaky bum moment to add to the collection.

[R-Soul]

He's using 'accident' in a different sense of the word you muppet.

Not really. Both are situations that could have been avoided by more prudent use of good technique and common sense.

[R-Soul]

The buffer may be smaller, but it's still there and if i'm still within it, according to you and Katman, I should be fine and not have to worry about having an accident... The buffer theory is flawed, in fact flawed to the point where complaicency sets in...



You're quoting BULLSHIT ACC statistics to backup your accusation that i'm spouting bullshit argument instantly moot. The difference is, these guys may well have been nowhere near their boundaries/limits/capabilities... it was just the wrong day to go aroundh that corner for the 3496th time...



Correct. But your risk and my risk are completely different and we may well take exactly the same things into consideration, this is how futile managing risk is. Be careful (managing risk) ios all that should be asked of anyone, because 1 moments lapse and it could be your last. Doesn't mean it will be, you may just have another squeaky bum moment to add to the collection.

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see.

As I said, the first stage of overcoming your addiction is admitting its a problem.

[mashman]

I may be wrong, but most of us don't want to know what it feels like to 'hit that patch' at too great a speed. Of course things can go wrong when you have a buffer, the point of it is they are a lot less likely to. So while you are probably going to want to push it every now and then, which can be beneficial for learning the bikes limits etc, it's a bloody good idea to do it where you are not going to need as big a buffer, well known roads which you know the surface is good and have good vision etc.

And as MSTRS says, a true accident is quite rare, I've had 1, and had another avoidable one, and hundreds of offs on the dirt cos I was pushing it.

I'm fed up with hearing about let likely, you might, it could, it's highly probable when it comes to accidents/crashes... you have a tiny tiny tiny miniscule probability that you'll crash/have an accident, whatever it is on a given day on roads that you know etc... but you will always have a 50 - 50 chance that somewhere during that day you're going to have an accident/crash etc... it could be at 50, it could be at 150...

[Katman]

I'm fed up with hearing about let likely, you might, it could, it's highly probable when it comes to accidents/crashes... you have a tiny tiny tiny miniscule probability that you'll crash/have an accident, whatever it is on a given day on roads that you know etc... but you will always have a 50 - 50 chance that somewhere during that day you're going to have an accident/crash etc... it could be at 50, it could be at 150...

Fuck man, you don't even make any sense!

[bogan]

I'm fed up with hearing about let likely, you might, it could, it's highly probable when it comes to accidents/crashes... you have a tiny tiny tiny miniscule probability that you'll crash/have an accident, whatever it is on a given day on roads that you know etc... but you will always have a 50 - 50 chance that somewhere during that day you're going to have an accident/crash etc... it could be at 50, it could be at 150...

Less likely to crash is exactly what being discussed here, the warning for when you up the pace was meant to be heeded and make you less likely to crash if you do up the pace. If you're fed up with it, then don't come into threads about safer riding! the chance of having an accident might be minuscule, but half of minuscule is still half as likely. I have no idea of what you mean by the last bit, riders with a 50-50 chance of an accident per day, will not stay riding for long.

[mashman]

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see.

As I said, the first stage of overcoming your addiction is admitting its a problem.

if I was you, i'd be removing those rose tinted specs... I see completely, understand fully and to a certain extent apply the attitude that you and Katman are talking about whilst i ride... however, you guys refuse to accept that once in a while we stay within our buffer and still fuck up. You're talking about the majority of accidents and crashes that haven't been quantified in terms of fuckupability... all we hear is, if you had been going at 100 instead of 110 you wouldn't have to get a new bike, or leg, or eye... what about those other 3964 times that corner has been taken without incident? do you and Katman take that into account? Why?

[mashman]

Fuck man, you don't even make any sense!

fuck off then

[R-Soul]

I'm fed up with hearing about let likely, you might, it could, it's highly probable when it comes to accidents/crashes... you have a tiny tiny tiny miniscule probability that you'll crash/have an accident, whatever it is on a given day on roads that you know etc... but you will always have a 50 - 50 chance that somewhere during that day you're going to have an accident/crash etc... it could be at 50, it could be at 150...

You try and sweep away our common sense with broad generalisations. You try to convince us that its because its too hard to think like that all the time. Or thats its too tiring. Or because you are too dumb (dont worry we know you arent). Any excuse will do.

But actually its because you cant wait for your next "fix".

All we ar saying is that you should rather get it on the track.

Besides, when you do, it overshadows the road fix by so much, that the road fix seems negligible by comparison, and you dont even bother about it anymore.

[R-Soul]

if I was you, i'd be removing those rose tinted specs... I see completely, understand fully and to a certain extent apply the attitude that you and Katman are talking about whilst i ride... however, you guys refuse to accept that once in a while we stay within our buffer and still fuck up. You're talking about the majority of accidents and crashes that haven't been quantified in terms of fuckupability... all we hear is, if you had been going at 100 instead of 110 you wouldn't have to get a new bike, or leg, or eye... what about those other 3964 times that corner has been taken without incident? do you and Katman take that into account? Why?

So because 2 in 100 accidents cant be helped, and will nail you regardless of your caution, now we mus throw our hands in the air, say "what the fuck, it cannot be helped" and ride like we stole it? Rather a defeatist attitude if you ask me.
That seems to rely waaay too much on fate for my liking. Clearly you dont have kids.

[mashman]

Less likely to crash is exactly what being discussed here, the warning for when you up the pace was meant to be heeded and make you less likely to crash if you do up the pace. If you're fed up with it, then don't come into threads about safer riding! the chance of having an accident might be minuscule, but half of minuscule is still half as likely. I have no idea of what you mean by the last bit, riders with a 50-50 chance of an accident per day, will not stay riding for long.

I can fall off the step at home and kill myself, so let's be real here. I have a 50 - 50 chance of crashing my bike on a corner that I have ridden several thousand times, so my probability of crashing on that corner at my current speed is pretty low. Yet there is still a chance that it can happen, it happens or it doesn't. The 1 time that I come off could be my fault, but statistically and from my perspective knowing my riding and my abilities it's not likely to happen, yet i still have a 50 -50 chance of it happening and fully accept that FACT.

The OP should be an Ad on TV, which is how this latest charade started, I agree, whole heartedly, with what he's saying, but that does not mean I am advocating using the road like a race track and does not read like a racing manual...

[mashman]

You try and sweep away our common sense with broad generalisations. You try to convince us that its because its too hard to think like that all the time. Or thats its too tiring. Or because you are too dumb (dont worry we know you arent). Any excuse will do.

But actually its because you cant wait for your next "fix".

All we ar saying is that you should rather get it on the track.

Besides, when you do, it overshadows the road fix by so much, that the road fix seems negligible by comparison, and you dont even bother about it anymore.

Not at all. I'm being realistic. It can take a momentary distraction that leads to a persons undoing and that may well have nothing to do with any lack of common sense, the amount of thought that is being put into the activity you're undertaking or the amount of pressure being exerted through your right hand... It may or may not happen is all i'm saying, something you and Katman seem hell bent on disproving. Yes people fuck up when they don't mean to, when there's no other reason for it other than they got it wrong... but that's all it is SOME OF THE TIME, someone learning their lesson by getting something wrong... I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, seeing what's happened as an accident with nothing to blame other than, today it happened differently than to how it normally happens... we don't all go out, find roads that we don't know and pin the throttle...