Group ride sticky

[Waihou Thumper]

ADV rides, riders etc and forums groups etc...
When we make mistakes, have mishaps, get lost, run out of gas, even if the worst happens and we fall off? (does that happen to ADV riders?) Never noticed......
Anyway, I have seen this and it is bordering on the ridiculous.....
Look, as Joe says, don't like the ride, don't go, company? Don't go....
We ride for the enjoyment of riding, ride for the enjoyment of riding with mates, having fun....
Lest's keep it that way...
We are all known here, lets wlecome the new rider, lets enjoy!
I have had the best of times here falling, chatting, picking up, dusting off and shooting the shit....Lets not ruin it!

[Waihou Thumper]

I just wont read that sticky and will go with the ignorance is bliss theory ( has worked ok for me so far ) .

There is also one about tyres, I choose my own! as with the company, the rides and the adventures....

[Howie]

I think the sticky is meant as a guide for people, who may be new to organising rides, and for people who are new to group riding etc. I don’t have a problem with the guidelines being there. If you as the ride initiator/ organiser choose to use them, or not is upto you.

Most of the Adv rides I see being organised, seem to be well discussed in a thread before they happen, So all of the riders on the ride should know the sort of terrain being ridden through,

I believe in personal responsibility, but I also believe in looking out for those I’m riding with, Which seems to happen on most rides I’ve been on. The Adventure group as a whole probably observes a lot of these guidelines without even thinking about them. Most of the larger rides tend to end up with someone as tailend charlie, and the smaller ones tend to stay closer together.

As to the organisers responsibility to the group. I think there is no way a organiser should be held responsible for any incidents on a public road, or off road on tracks etc, as that is where personal responsibility comes in. If Kiwibiker site is worried about ride organisers/ KB being held legally responsible for anything that happens on a organised ride. Then maybe some sort of legal disclaimer should be added to calender events to make ALL Riders aware they are responsible for there own safety, and ride at there own risk. As to helping out in making sure everyone is out of the track, and able to get home after breakdowns, or crashes that is more of the sort of thing I would expect an organiser to be aware of, not saying it is their job to do it, but more an awareness of what is happening on the ride that they organised.

[Rosie]

To me the guidelines seem broadly similar to the way a lot of the overnight ADV rides are organised around here.

The guidelines could be particularly useful if you were organising something like this year's MMMMM for the first time (30 odd riders, reasonable distances, remote areas), and needed some pointers on how to keep everything running smoothly.

[young1]

The Naki rides that Phil and I organise are informal rides, a group gets together and rides. But saying that on the MAPMEA ride this year I will again be tail end charlie (like I was on the TTTTT ride last year) but I will be more prepared this time with a basic first aid kit just in case it is needed.

We also take it upon ourselves to keep count of bikes at each stop to make sure we haven't lost anyone over a bank etc. Of course it doesn't help if someone decides to head home without telling anyone!

I also think that for anyone organising an "informal" ride it is important to make sure that people know what sort of terrain is being ridden. I have had a couple of messages asking about this and have let them know. I believe in the no surprises rule.

So remember to sign up for the MAPMEA ride, not long now.

[CookMySock]

P.S. Maybe I take on too much responsibility but having had to rely on others to get me on a chopper and out to safety I'm a strong believer in looking out for each other (doesn't remove the need for personal responsibility though!!!).

In real life, everyone pitches in and things work out. I have only organised one ride, and I typed up a detailed plan including maps and hazard identification. Not one person in the group read it.

Steve

[cooneyr]

....We also take it upon ourselves to keep count of bikes at each stop to make sure we haven't lost anyone over a bank etc. Of course it doesn't help if someone decides to head home without telling anyone!...

In real life, everyone pitches in and things work out. I have only organised one ride, and I typed up a detailed plan including maps and hazard identification. Not one person in the group read it.

Steve

You guys just identified two of the things that cause frustration/difficulty - people leaving the ride without telling others and people not bothering to learn, even roughly, where we are going.

Almost all the rides I've been on go of without a hitch because people are aware of others around them and keep an eye out, but I'm using this thread as an opportunity to highlight to people who have never organised a large group ride that it can be a bit stressful - i.e. play the game and think of all the others on the ride.

Cheers R

[Crisis management]

My original concern with this is the mention in the sticky of the possibility of legal liability for any bad outcome on the ride, I would suggest you read that part.
Now, it is stated that there is only a very small likely hood of a legal liability but a recent involvment with a maritime investigation has made me far more aware of how people investigating an incident / accident look at those responsible / involved. My principle concern is that having the Group ride sticky well advertised on the forum it makes it a de-facto "rules for how the rides will be organised", you can't claim you didn't know.
I want to be able to post up a date and rough route without having to spend days pissing about with crossing T's and dotting I's and worrying about the consequences of losing some noddy down a bank, a very real possibility on our rides.
I also want to be able to encourage n00bs along without having to sight there licences and check their bikes over.....

I'm just not convinced we can ignore the sticky and carry on, we may be leaving ourselves open for liability at some stage, I unfortunately don't have any suggestions of how best to address this.

except start posting under Tri-boys name

[CookMySock]

[...] I'm using this thread as an opportunity to highlight to people who have never organised a large group ride that it can be a bit stressful - i.e. play the game and think of all the others on the ride.

I think on the road, that level of care is not warranted. If someone misses a turn and ditches the group, then they can buy a pie at the servo, gas up, and find their own way home - consequences = zero, and certainly not your problem.

If they go down some ditch somewhere, then that is not remotely the fault of the organised ride. Refer nut on bars comment. People absolutely must not place any faith in "the group" for their safety on the public roads. Their faith must be in their own ability and navigation, or else they shouldn't be there.

In the bush, hours from nowhere with no support - completely different. The team stays together, and all sorts of safety nets stay in place.

Steve

[CookMySock]

My principle concern is that having the Group ride sticky well advertised on the forum it makes it a de-facto "rules for how the rides will be organised", you can't claim you didn't know.

I agree. The forum has possibly caused much more damage than it has done good.

The last thing we need is set or create some legal precedent that can be held against us.

Steve

[That looks like fun]

Speaking as a person who was wiped out by a tosser on a road ride I thought the guidelines had some valid points.
I was taken out by a clown who overtook on the left when all the bikes ahead of him (including me) were slowing down. Result, 2 bikes written. The guy who caused it all rode his home. The third bike involved had been passed on the left (by a bike sliding along the ground until it ran into mine) and tried to avoid running over my bike and me (who were now also sliding along the ground). Unfortunatly for him when my riderless bike struck the side of the vehicle we had all (almost all of us) been slowing down for. It bounced back onto the road in front of him.
So, overtaking on the left, big NO in my book
On the plus side I got top trade in price and brought an ADV bike
General findings with ADV Riders, generally much better behaved and courteous . Got overtaken by one clown on the Motu during Clintz ride who couldnt be buggered allowing for others level of inexperience
Watched 2 guys on the Waikato ride who rode like mad men on the seal sections then held everyone up on the gravel.
So you 3 guys (you know who you are) lift ya game, your letting the team down The rest of ya, as you were
One simple guideline I would like to see for ADV rides, If someone catches up to you, they are travelling faster than you, get out of there way and let them pass
You may now appluad politley

[Squiggles]

I think on the road, that level of care is not warranted.

You'd leave a mate in the ditch then?

[NordieBoy]

One simple guideline I would like to see for ADV rides, If someone catches up to you, they are travelling faster than you, get out of there way and let them pass

If someone catches up to you they should have the skills to pass safely.

Don't risk your safety just to let someone past.

[Oscar]

If someone catches up to you they should have the skills to pass safely.

Don't risk your safety just to let someone past.

+1

About 100 Years ago when I was an NZACU Steward - the rule was that it was contingent on the person making the pass to do it safely.

[johannvr]

my 2c...

Have licence, know that a bike is supposedly a dangerous toy, go on any ride (organised, informal, alone - doesn't matter) knowing all of that, have the bonce to be careful and take care, so if & when I do fall off like I have more than once (or even something more serious), the liability is ALL mine.

// 2c opinion off //