It is all our fault

**Mom** · 15th September 2009, 08:16

This makes an interesting read.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10597333

**jono035** · 15th September 2009, 08:23

Originally Posted by Mom

This makes an interesting read.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10597333

"motorbikes and scooters" is the key phrase from that report in terms of city accidents. I'm not surprised given the number of people on scooters I see charging down symonds st on the wrong side of the road or just generally weaving randomly through moving traffic...

I do wonder how accurate some of those decisions on who was at fault are though.

**Latte** · 15th September 2009, 08:27

Anyone notice it's ~70% - of 20ish crashes per year.

I'd like to see the comparable car v car , or even car v bus numbers for the same years.

Harold strikes again......

**short-circuit** · 15th September 2009, 08:34

I detect sarcasm in the thread title - "It's ALL our fault"

I also detect a sense of us an them "It's all OUR fault"

My take on it is that motorcycling requires more concentration/control/skill etc
I don't see why statistically the proportion of skilled operators vs retards would be any higher in the motorcycling population than the driving population.
The consequences for making a mistake are significantly higher for the motorcyclist than the driver

Hence reason for the statistical discrepancy

**jono035** · 15th September 2009, 08:35

Originally Posted by hiss

Anyone notice it's ~70% - of 20ish crashes per year.

I'd like to see the comparable car v car , or even car v bus numbers for the same years.

Harold strikes again......

Yeah, but I remember seeing statistics somewhere saying that scooters/motorcycles were much more likely to get into an accident within the same number of kms travelled which would suggest that we crash more often and are at fault more often than someone else driving a car.

I think it's probably to do with the fact that riding is a passion/enjoyment for most motorcyclists whereas driving is something that has to be done (possibly while eating pies, applying makeup, shaving, texting etc.) in order to get where you want to go. At least that coupled with the mid-life-crisis biker theory, anyway.

**Oscar** · 15th September 2009, 08:36

Originally Posted by hiss

Anyone notice it's ~70% - of 20ish crashes per year.

I'd like to see the comparable car v car , or even car v bus numbers for the same years.

Harold strikes again......

???
In car versus car it's gonna be a car at fault...

**unrealone** · 15th September 2009, 08:38

Yep, statistics..........................from the ACC. As if I'll believe it.

**dipshit** · 15th September 2009, 08:43

Which is why i have been saying that BRONZ are doing more harm than good with their "it's mostly the car drivers fault" bullshit head up their arse approach.

When the general public find out that is not the case... they are going to realise that motorcyclists are a bunch of whingeing hypocrites.

**Katman** · 15th September 2009, 08:43

Originally Posted by unrealone

Yep, statistics..........................from the ACC. As if I'll believe it.

Trouble is, it doesn't much matter whether you believe it.

It's whether those who have the power to legislate us off the road believe it, that matters.

**firefighter** · 15th September 2009, 08:45

Fuck the scooters off the list.

Not really fair to include them as well, really, they generally don't wear ANY gear other than the bare minimum helmet, shorts, T-shirt and jandles/running shoes.......

It's like saying that people on 4 wheeler farm bikes have four wheels so they should be included in car statistics.....

**dipshit** · 15th September 2009, 08:51

Originally Posted by firefighter

Fuck the scooters off the list.

It doesn't really matter what you want to ignore. NZ transport figures have some pretty ugly figures. 500 cc bikes and over feature very highly. Around 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents were the fault of the rider.

**short-circuit** · 15th September 2009, 08:54

Originally Posted by firefighter

Fuck the scooters off the list.

Not really fair to include them as well, really, they generally don't wear ANY gear other than the bare minimum helmet, shorts, T-shirt and jandles/running shoes.......

It's like saying that people on 4 wheeler farm bikes have four wheels so they should be included in car statistics.....

Yeah so Scooter riders may/may not wear ATGATT, but they ain't as likely to have one wheel in the air, or be travelling with quite the same sort of velocity as bikers

Again your statement seems driven out of an us and them position - not helpful if trying to establish objective facts, trends and statistics

**firefighter** · 15th September 2009, 08:54

Originally Posted by dipshit

It doesn't really matter what you want to ignore. NZ transport figures have some pretty ugly figures. 500 cc bikes and over feature very highly. Around 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents were the fault of the rider.

Yeah thanks mate I can read.

**firefighter** · 15th September 2009, 08:56

Originally Posted by short-circuit

Again your statement seems driven out of an us and them position -

This is my first input into this topic. 'Again' nothing sweetie.

My point has been missed.

I'm saying scooters and motorcyles are different kettles of fish, they may as well include mopeds and boats.

Originally Posted by short-circuit

not helpful if trying to establish objective facts, trends and statistics

No, adding an un-related group into a statistic is'nt helpful.

**short-circuit** · 15th September 2009, 08:58

Originally Posted by firefighter

This is my first input into this topic. Again nothing sweetie.

My point has been missed.

I'm saying scooters and motorcyles are different kettles of fish, they may as well include mopeds and boats.

Whether you like it or not, scooters are classified as motor(bi)cycles sweetie, and they are subject to the same licence conditions as us