The instructions are simple...
There is a certain logic in what you say, but replace the cars running off the road with bikes instead...
The road will not get 'fixed', but ACC will be increased and more insurers will refuse to cover etc. See where I'm going with this? It's a numbers game and we don't have the numbers. Actually, we probably do, but there is no collective will. So we continue to be a target because we are an easy target and don't do ourselves too many favours.
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
Should be out riding
The whole "at fault" part is way too subjective, even in this thread we have had quotes for "at fault" accidents from the same year from different sources that should be the same...
I think its obvious that the statistics here are skewed to an intention.
Its also useful to point out that most of the time if a driver is breaking the law they are immediately considered at fault regardless of the actual cause of the accident.
Proportionally i would say that there are allot and i mean heaps more riders without licenses than car drivers without licences. From all accounts i know 100s of people who drive cars and quite allot less than 1/2 that number of people who ride bikes and there is STILL more riders out of CC or riding outside their class 1 requirements (i.e. riding a bike, not a car).
I don't think that statistics can be relied on here.
As someone said higher up in the thread, we are less protected and we are at a much higher risk of serious injury. I would also like to make the point that my bike has more than 4 times the horsepower per tonne than any car i have owned and about 1/3 the contact to the road (if i am real generous). I'll admit that i believe that bikes are capable of better handling.
95% of the riders i know are way more technical than any car driver i have met, they have a massive passion for it and i believe that this passion makes them better.
All positives and negatives aside, bikes have allot more power and allot less protection and car drivers don't seem to see us quite so well, i think those points are more valuable to focus on rather than some purpose-weighted statistics.
Originally Posted by Mully
You can't save the fallen, direct the lost or motivate the lazy.
Forum whore
Gee... you don't say. And here was me thinking that 75% meant 100%.
And you have one where it wasn't his fault. How about the countless others we hear about weekend after weekend where it was a motorcyclist or motorcyclists *only* involved in a fatal? Shall we go recounting all of those ones too..??This bloke was minding his own business and got taken out. Even the police say so. This is a completely non-fault biker fatality, trouble is it will form part of the statistics that the opening post referred to.
Forum whore
Exactly. Which is why organisations like BRONZ that have even managed to bullshit motorcyclists (while spinning to the general public in their propaganda campaign) into thinking that most accidents are caused by car drivers... are causing more harm than good. Motorcyclists end up hitting the road with an attitude that their shit doesn't stink... they are special... and its all those stupid car drivers that are the problem.
Things aren't going to change while that attitude is prevalent.
NEDWN VIII
Sure, if it will help your conquest and make you feel good about yourself, at least for today?
Not all biker fatality's are the fault of the biker, so if you can supply us data that proves otherwise then please do. I dont mind being corrected at all.
Should be out riding
Dunno man, thats a bit of a polar view.. I saw some stats last year that said 75% of accidents causign injury involving cars and bikes were the car driver's fault. It didn't mean i put my crown on and pissed allover the peasants in their foolish cars, it rang warning bells about the dangers of being close to cars so i backed off.
I honestly believe that car drivers (including myself when i am on 4 wheels) are more nonchalant, pay less attention and are more likely to only identify with vehicles they see as a threat (i.e. not bikes).
It doesn't mean they are idiots and my shit smells like chocolate covered strawberries, just that i need to be extra careful.
You can't save the fallen, direct the lost or motivate the lazy.
Forum whore
I never said they were! Saying 75% or the majority of them are, is not saying they all are. Of course they all aren't always the rider's fault.
But selecting an example from the smaller minority does not take away the fact that the majority are rider error.
(unless you're delusional)
NEDWN VIII
Did you miss this bit?I never said they were! Saying 75% or the majority of them are, is not saying they all are. Of course they all aren't always the rider's fault.
But selecting an example from the smaller minority does not take away the fact that the majority are rider error.
(unless you're delusional)
'stats last year that said 75% of accidents causing injury involving cars and bikes were the car driver's fault'.
Not really a majority eh?...well not where the biker is concerned.
Forum whore
Where was that bit?
NEDWN VIII
Scroll up, post 96. Right above your post 97.
Forum whore
"I saw some stats last year that said 75% of accidents causign injury involving cars and bikes were the car driver's fault."
Oh, someone saw some stats. Was this on a BRONZ website? Was this an overseas study? Was this that selective Auckland study? Who knows.
NZ authorities are actually giving us these statistics year after year...
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...-Factsheet.pdf
One of the obvious things is that around 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents are rider error.
The instructions are simple...
Doesn't matter what the figures are...this lot of stats say 75%, that lot say 43%, and so on...what matters is that too many of us are dying on the roads. Some try to do something about it, and some just wanna argue.
Love them or not, BRONZ is the only voice we have (other than Alan Kirk)
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
Whip it, whip it good!
Wash your mouth out immediately!(other than Alan Kirk
The instructions are simple...
Sorry. Do I need to use soap as well??
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
I have to agree with this point. I recall reading on these forums about a young man that was killed when a woman in a car did a U-turn in front of his bike. He died and his girlfriend riding pillion was injured. The woman went to court and claimed that the bike must have been speeding - no evidence of this at all. The defense claimed that the bike had crash bungs, indicating the rider was likely to be a frequent speeder (WTF?). The woman was let off - bad result IMO.
But in the crash statistics what was that death blamed on - motorcyclist at fault or not?
Take this:
2008: 9 scooter, 16 motorcycle - 61 per cent
What does it mean really? How many motorcycles and how many scooters are in the area? 61% were to blame - but in what way? That is only 25 accidents in total, I wouldn't mind knowing what went wrong in those 25 cases and what lessons we could all learn from them. There is way too little info here to draw any meaningful conclusions from!
----------------------------------------------------
"If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
- George Carlin (RIP)
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