How I ride is perceived by others...

[Mom]

It is about time that a thread on taking personal responsibility for your actions on the road, and how those actions will impact the general populace and how they view us bikers in future, is actually given some considered and positive debate on here. All too often certain members with genuine and heartfelt opinions can railroad a discussion into a meaningless slanging match, often accompanied by abuse and red rep flying, coupled with a few infractions as a side dish.

Lets see if it is possible to have an adult, mature discussion on this. I am not interested in seeing shit talk in this thread, nor do I want to see abuse, or funny to some pisstaking, if you cant contribute in an adult way please refrain from saying anything.

So, ground rules established here goes.

I am sure that we would all agree that idiots on the road, whether they ride bikes or drive cars are the bain of our lives as we make our way from A to B on our bikes. I am equally as sure that we would all agree that being an idiot on the road does not look good to anyone.

What defines an idiot? Well I guess that all depends on where you sit on the "things that seem crazy to some people will be nothing to worry about to others" scale. How do we tell the difference when we are pootling along enjoying our own ride?

Because I chopped down a gear and flew past that Granny in her Corolla doing 80 on the open road, does that make me an idiot? I never went over 110kph, but I passed her. Sure there was a bend in the road ahead, but I knew there was heaps of room to make that pass easily, and safely. How did she feel about it? Perhaps I scared the snot out of her and I am now confined to the "bloody idiot" category too?

So, how do we tell? How do we mitigate the perceived image we portray when doing our thing, if we relegate ourselves to "idiot" status in all innocence?

Remember folks, this is a discussion for grown ups. Lets see if we can manage to behave in this thread as well as we would expect all bikers to behave on the road, with courtesy and respect.

GO!

[Sharry]

It is true that a respectful discusion on personal responsability would be useful amongs adults.
I can be difficult to define idiot.
If you pass Granny, who thinks 80 is the new world land record, she could see you as an idiot for needing to go faster than 80. I on the other hand having passed Granny at 100 kph with a calm hand on the throttle I may think I am being responsable, as I presume when the local rabbit runs in front of her Carolla she will either break suddenly or attempt evasive action. I also know that she may be prone to rounding 55kph corners at 50 kph.
So therefore justifying my passing manuvour.

Idiot to me is someone that is doing an avoidable manovour that is either very illegal or potentually dangerous to themselves or others.

[Sidewinder]

mmmm this is a hard one, even if its in the law people see things as stupid and silly, if ya cant get pulled over for it then i reckon its fine. like me speeding, i cant get pulled over because i go to fast and dont stop

[piston broke]

i'm an imature child at heart

[short-circuit]

It is about time that a thread on taking personal responsibility for your actions on the road, and how those actions will impact the general populace and how they view us bikers in future, is actually given some considered and positive debate on here. All too often certain members with genuine and heartfelt opinions can railroad a discussion into a meaningless slanging match, often accompanied by abuse and red rep flying, coupled with a few infractions as a side dish.

Lets see if it is possible to have an adult, mature discussion on this. I am not interested in seeing shit talk in this thread, nor do I want to see abuse, or funny to some pisstaking, if you cant contribute in an adult way please refrain from saying anything.

So, ground rules established here goes.

I am sure that we would all agree that idiots on the road, whether they ride bikes or drive cars are the bain of our lives as we make our way from A to B on our bikes. I am equally as sure that we would all agree that being an idiot on the road does not look good to anyone.

What defines an idiot? Well I guess that all depends on where you sit on the "things that seem crazy to some people will be nothing to worry about to others" scale. How do we tell the difference when we are pootling along enjoying our own ride?

Because I chopped down a gear and flew past that Granny in her Corolla doing 80 on the open road, does that make me an idiot? I never went over 110kph, but I passed her. Sure there was a bend in the road ahead, but I knew there was heaps of room to make that pass easily, and safely. How did she feel about it? Perhaps I scared the snot out of her and I am now confined to the "bloody idiot" category too?

So, how do we tell? How do we mitigate the perceived image we portray when doing our thing, if we relegate ourselves to "idiot" status in all innocence?

Remember folks, this is a discussion for grown ups. Lets see if we can manage to behave in this thread as well as we would expect all bikers to behave on the road, with courtesy and respect.

GO!

Nope. Too constrained by those ground rules way too serious for me

[Hiflyer]

It is true that a respectful discusion on personal responsability would be useful amongs adults.
I can be difficult to define idiot.
If you pass Granny, who thinks 80 is the new world land record, she could see you as an idiot for needing to go faster than 80. I on the other hand having passed Granny at 100 kph with a calm hand on the throttle may think I am being responsable, as I presume when the local rabbit runs in front of her Carolla she will either break suddenly or attempt evasive action. I also know that she may be prone to rounding 55kkph corners at 50 kph.
So therefore justifying my passing manuvour.

Idiot to me is someone that is doing an avoidable manovour that is either very illegal or potentually dangerous to themselves or others.

And on the other hand if you don't pass her shes probably going to think you're an idiot biker who tailgates everyone (not YOU specifically, you get ma jist ) and even in your situation if you can justify your passing move it sure as hell wont stop her from sitting round groaning and moaning to 5 or 6 people about that idiot biker who FLEW past her earlier.


I guess it is very hard not to be percieved as an idiot by someone at some point in time.

Which kinda means it's a lose lose situation.

edit: or we could just drive at 80 on the open road in a corolla, but then another younger person will come across us and think "stupid old people" and we will end up pissing people off in another way.. DAMN VISCIOUS CIRCLES

[R6_kid:Me]

I put other bikers into that category quite frequently. Like the squid on the Maroon 2006 R1 who took exception to me getting slightly ahead of him in traffic in a different lane on the motorway tonight. He took off, cutting up traffic at 140kmh+ leading up to, and over the Harbour Bridge. Why? I was just riding home from a test at university.

[James Deuce]

Everyone slower than me is a thoughtless idiot and everyone faster is a maniac.

[CookMySock]

Everyone thinks everyone else is an idiot on at least one topic.

It isn't my business what you do, and nor do I have an opinion on how you conduct yourself personally. Quite frankly it doesn't affect me.

For myself, I do as I choose - probably exactly what you do too.

I vote we just keep doing that. I won't judge you, and you don't judge me.

Sound like a plan?

Steve

[Mom]

I put other bikers into that category quite frequently. Like the squid on the Maroon 2006 R1 who took exception to me getting slightly ahead of him in traffic in a different lane on the motorway. He took off, cutting up traffic at 140kmh+ over leading up to, and over the Harbour Bridge. Why? I was just riding home from a test at university.

See, this is what I am talking about here, that is worthy of idiot tag. That is a perfect example of the kind of behaviour that does indeed influence how bikers as a whole are perceived.

btw short-circuit, you have just made your last stupid post in here.

[scumdog]

Idiot to me is someone that is doing an avoidable manovour that is either very illegal or potentually dangerous to themselves or others.

Pretty much sums it up - with the real emphasis on the 'potentially dangerous' bit.

[Milts]

I think you have to ask if you want a truly objective opinion of stupid, or a subjective opinion of stupid. This may seem like a no brainer but if you want an objective opinion of 'stupid' then you CANNOT go by whether or not it breaks the law. The reason being not only are the road rules disputed within the population, but they can be entirely different overseas. Hence you could say that doing 140 km/h on a clear, straight, 4 laned road with a centre divider is subjectively 'stupid', but in some places (eg German Autobahn) this is considered 'normal', and as such is not objectively stupid.
If you are looking for a subjective definition of stupid then you will get as many answers as there are people. From your post it looks like you are looking for an objective definition of stupid.
If you are after an objective definition of stupid then I think the only way you can define it is by the dangerousness of the act. As I explained above, you cannot objectively call something 'stupid' based solely on local laws. Therefore the obvious way to define it is how dangerous the driving/riding is. Obviously how dangerous any particular act is will depend on a number of factors - vehicle type, conditions, and skill of the driver. For example it may be 'stupid' for some 15 year old on their learner license to go around a corner on the motorway labeled "60" doing 90 ks an hour in a SUV, but it may not be stupid for a 30 year old experienced driver to perform the same maneuver in a sports car on a sunny day.
So basically, as long as the maneuver is not excessively dangerous given the conditions (obviously there is some line drawing involved here, but don't get me started on that) then it is not 'stupid' - once someone is driving outside the conditions or their abilities and is putting themselves or others at substantial risk, it becomes stupid. So you would be fine for passing that woman at 110 or 120 kph regardless of what she thinks, but overtaking 3 people coming up to the corner doing 160 would be stupid (unless you are very very good and can see through corners).


Sorry for the TLDR response...that's what you get for doing a BA at uni I guess.

[Sidewinder]

self controll is a hard thing for some, like the red mist, that always got me in trouble, way to egear to show off all the time. and mom you have even told me off after a ride i think for doing back fires on the motor way...????

[FJRider]

It is true that a respectful discusion on personal responsability would be useful amongs adults.
I can be difficult to define idiot.
If you pass Granny, who thinks 80 is the new world land record, she could see you as an idiot for needing to go faster than 80. I on the other hand having passed Granny at 100 kph with a calm hand on the throttle may think I am being responsable, as I presume when the local rabbit runs in front of her Carolla she will either break suddenly or attempt evasive action. I also know that she may be prone to rounding 55kkph corners at 50 kph.
So therefore justifying my passing manuvour.

Idiot to me is someone that is doing an avoidable manovour that is either very illegal or potentually dangerous to themselves or others.

Personal responsibility ??? is it in regards to responsibility for your actions ... or the results of those actions ??? If you got a ticket for exceeding the speed limit passing Granny, you are being held responsible for breaking the law. But ... if Granny got a fright and ran off the road or into another vehicle, would you believe you were responsible for that ???

We all have done idiot things on the road, with thoughts of (just after)... why did I do that ?? Even if we get away with it at the time. When we do it .... its ok. But if others do it, its a hangable offence.

Does personal responsibility end, when you see personal justification ???

[ManDownUnder]

I reserve the right to be pissed off if anything, in my personal judgement, threatens the safety of me an mine.

I expect others to hold a similar view - and try to ride accordingly. If our respective personal views differ enough for me to be branded an idiot then so be it... but I need to be willing to face any consequences my actions cause.

If I do something that some old dear sees and wildly dangerous and has a heart attack as a result... it's over to me to assuage my own conscience.