Wet tar, shiny tar, sticky tar

[crash harry]

In hindsight surely the shinko tyres are WAY too expensive to use?
What does it cost to ride on shinko tyres and lowside a bike vs riding on quality tyres?

I don't think that the tyres are the best place to save money on a bike TBH.
Buy good rubber and consider it an investment in safety, but still ride with due care.

I think they're standard fitment on Hyosungs? Which would explain why a new Hyosung has them on (DB could confirm that...)

And on the topic, nice post Beyond. I would add that everything you said counts for tar snakes as well, except that they can usually be avoided more easily. Bloody slippery in the rain though!

[CookMySock]

In hindsight surely the shinko tyres are WAY too expensive to use? What does it cost to ride on shinko tyres and lowside a bike vs riding on quality tyres? I don't think that the tyres are the best place to save money on a bike TBH. Buy good rubber and consider it an investment in safety, but still ride with due care.

Yes I agree completely - false economy. The biggest problem with shit tyres, is they last for ages. Shinkos are as hard as glass and last a long time - ok for general dry road work, and commuting on good roads, but particularly dangerous for touring in the wet.

I think they're standard fitment on Hyosungs? Which would explain why a new Hyosung has them on (DB could confirm that...)

They are standard fitment on the 250's. The 650's Has Bridgestone Battleaxes on them IIRC, which are lots better, but nothing near the Michelin PR2's on my 650 - the factory tyres are laughable in comparison.

Steve

[trailblazer]

Don't no if it was just my tyres or what but yesterday when i was coming home from work in the rain i was half way through a corner when the road was covered in cow shit and i couldn't avoid it so i had to stand the bike up a bit but fuck it was slippery as fuck i nearly lost the front end.

[eldog]

Had some experience here, the corner was slight 15 degree up hill. The low light level meant I could see most of the Left Hand corner.
Initially could see very good seal all across the corner about 85% around. Travelling slowly entered corner slowly because day had been dry and only recently it had rained, Clear cool night. Took the corner wide as we have been taught to do so, to increase visibility. Saw at the beginning of the corner that the surface changed midway to complete tar bleed.
Was travelling at about 70, I leant over and stood the bike up before the change in traction. When the bike hit the tar bleed the rear immediately slid approx 0.5m+. I kept the throttle steady, but instinctlively pulled on the handbars to 'correct' the slide (OK maybe I was wrong here but thats why I am posting to get your thoughts). This induced a very viloent tank slapper because of the front/rear misalignment. Kept throttle level as best I could and kept arms stiff, mid way though the tank slapper, I let my arms go slack, the tank slapper declined slightly, and I thought I was regaining control. Then I was high sided as the rear regained traction on the good seal immediately after the tar bleed (approx 6m long area)

Tyres Michelin PR3's warmed up so much grip so grip wasnt an issue in normal conditions

The road had been repaired to halfway around the corner and the remaining tar bleed left. This is a dangerous situation when half a corner is repaired.

I was lucky, the bike was rideable and I rode it home, with injuries. ATGATT

There is so much tar bleed in the South Auckland area esp Rural Areas, there seems to be acceptance that this is the way roads are made.

Surely 'slippery when wet' road signs are inadequate (there wasnt any on my corner)

I was wondering when the Insurance/ACC would front up and ask questions as to why there isnt more done to remove this hazard from our roads.

Seems like there are lots of damage/injures to people and no-one says anything.

On my corner there is typically 4 accidents per year (all vehicles)

I reported it to Auckland Transport and still nothing has been done typical

Yes I want more riders to be aware of Hot/Cold Tar Bleed

[haydes55]

.
Was travelling at about 70, I leant over and stood the bike up before the change in traction. When the bike hit the tar bleed the rear immediately slid approx 0.5m+. I kept the throttle steady, but instinctlively pulled on the handbars to 'correct' the slide (OK maybe I was wrong here but thats why I am posting to get your thoughts). This induced a very viloent tank slapper because of the front/rear misalignment. Kept throttle level as best I could and kept arms stiff, mid way though the tank slapper, I let my arms go slack, the tank slapper declined slightly, and I thought I was regaining control. Then I was high sided as the rear regained traction on the good seal immediately after the tar bleed (approx 6m long area)

In a slide you should steer the front wheel to be in the direction you are going.

You did right, keeping throttle steady, shutting off would have made you high side earlier. You can roll off the throttle if you are standing the bike and aren't too far sideways. Use rear brake to control the wheel spin. Front brake will make your problems worse.

I find hanging off the inside of the bike helps, when the rear wheel regains grip, you can sometimes turn it into a turn (if you have the room).

[eldog]

In a slide you should steer the front wheel to be in the direction you are going.

You did right, keeping throttle steady, shutting off would have made you high side earlier. You can roll off the throttle if you are standing the bike and aren't too far sideways. Use rear brake to control the wheel spin. Front brake will make your problems worse.

I find hanging off the inside of the bike helps, when the rear wheel regains grip, you can sometimes turn it into a turn (if you have the room).

I tried to steer the front, but my input was perhaps a bit to quick and large (I was nervious)
It felt like a long way out and most likely was.
I have been out to the site and walked on it when wet (same conditions) it was SO SLIPPERY I SLID just in my shoes. It was a wake up call.

I suggest everyone goes and trys to walk on Hot/Cold-Wet Tar Bleed, its like ICE
Didnt use front brake thought that would have stuffed up getting the front (tankslapper) under control as it would have bounced the suspension?
I was slightly hanging off the inside.
Just as I thought the tankslapper was reducing, I was highsided. Theres no warning for that. I suppose the grippy PR3s caught me out.
Plenty of room, Only missed being runover by oncoming traffic (they couldnt see me) by about 1metre and 2 seconds as I got out of the way. I would have been toast.
They stopped as the saw the High Vis just as they were passing. They stopped and helped me - Nice

I suppose they were grateful they hadnt hit me, it wouldnt have been their fault.

[Akzle]

wrong. wrong. wrong. When the rear lights up, grab a handful of throttle, countersteer like a motherfucker and hang your leg out like you meant to do it.


What i really love is where some council moron has filled divots around a chipseal corner... With a bag of cold mix.

[eldog]

wrong. wrong. wrong. When the rear lights up, grab a handful of throttle, countersteer like a motherfucker and hang your leg out like you meant to do it.


What i really love is where some council moron has filled divots around a chipseal corner... With a bag of cold mix.

The rear didnt light up, it just slid, it was in one place then completely in another instantly. The revs didn't change.

I am now sure it was my steering input which caused the tankslapper. I did what someone in a car would do.

I should have kept the front wheel inline with the rear.

I don't have the experience, that I really needed in this situation. I have been asking for help/direction on what I need to do. Usually all I get is more k's.

Akzle I am sure you will have suggestions. I am a very inexperienced learner. Only limited road riding.


Councils = Cost cutting as I found out only resealed 1/2 corner another 6m would sort out the accidents there - 4 per year. Yes a death would see it fixed but not for those involved.

Most problems with seal re caused by incorrect base course, material used, and the addition of Kero lowers the melting point of bitumen and makes it cheaper

[Akzle]

The rear didnt light up, it just slid, it was in one place then completely in another instantly. The revs didn't change.

I am now sure it was my steering input which caused the tankslapper. I did what someone in a car would do.

I don't have the experience, that I really needed in this situation. I have been asking for help/direction on what I need to do. Usually all I get is more k's.

I am a very inexperienced learner. Only limited road riding.

as long as youre running through what ACTUALLY happened, in your head, youll learn from it. If youre making it up, then its wasted experience.

The revs dont have to change much to skid, just the relationship vs traction, best affected by momentum.

Get some kms on gravel.

I should have kept the front wheel inline with the rear.

not necessarily. In fact, if youre typing that as im reading it, completely wrong.

Front wheel WHERE YOU WANT TO GO WHICH IS ALSO WHERE YOURE LOOKING. There are very, very few exceptions to this.

Dont hold the bars too much, either. Cruising, you should be able to steer with your pinky fingers.
Some cunt will be along shortly to tell you to get some training.

[Akzle]

also, nothing happens 'instantly'
you need to increase ('speed up') your thinking, to gain a better perspective of the speed of life.

[eldog]

as long as youre running through what ACTUALLY happened, in your head, youll learn from it. If youre making it up, then its wasted experience.

The revs dont have to change much to skid, just the relationship vs traction, best affected by momentum.

Get some kms on gravel.

not necessarily. In fact, if youre typing that as im reading it, completely wrong.

Front wheel WHERE YOU WANT TO GO WHICH IS ALSO WHERE YOURE LOOKING. There are very, very few exceptions to this.

Dont hold the bars too much, either. Cruising, you should be able to steer with your pinky fingers.
Some cunt will be along shortly to tell you to get some training.

I have learnt from it - not making anything up
Agreed about momentum totally, total loss of traction, I tried it when wet just standing on the same spot = ICE
Gravel k's and sand to start Best suggestion I have had yet

Was trying to be loose on bars, getting better at it more k's are helping

Front wheel I reacted like you would in a car to correct slide (not skid)
I was looking where I wanted to go. I just overreacted

[eldog]

also, nothing happens 'instantly'
you need to increase ('speed up') your thinking, to gain a better perspective of the speed of life.

instantly is relative, the whole accident was maybe 10 seconds
In my mind was about a minute

and yes I expect to be wound up on KB and yes have done several lots of 'training'

didn't cover anything like this such is life

[george formby]

Get some kms on gravel.

This.
Playing in the dirt gets you used to the bike sliding around underneath you. After a bit of practice you react instantly & smoothly to keep the plot together with your body weight & throttle control. You also learn to keep your head up & focus on the exit rather than down where your gonna hit. A bike is going to do what it wants regardless, you can't stop the inertia of it's weight but you can be ready to gather it together when it starts behaving again.
It won't save you 100% of the time but makes a huge difference for those step out moments on diesel, gravel, shiny tar etc.
Awesome fun, too.

[Banditbandit]

I am now sure it was my steering input which caused the tankslapper. I did what someone in a car would do.

Maybe .. the biggest issue is that when the sliding wheel got off the seal bleed it gripped again. The momentum of you and the bike flipped the bike upright and threw you off. Physics will always catch you out.

Akzle's suggestion of counter-steering like mad and leaning into the corner may have helped that .. but you'd need to be pretty quick and onto it to do that .. hell even the MotoGP riders get caught by that - exactly as it happened to you .. don't beat yourself up ..

[eldog]

This.
Playing in the dirt gets you used to the bike sliding around underneath you. After a bit of practice you react instantly & smoothly to keep the plot together with your body weight & throttle control. You also learn to keep your head up & focus on the exit rather than down where your gonna hit. A bike is going to do what it wants regardless, you can't stop the inertia of it's weight but you can be ready to gather it together when it starts behaving again.
It won't save you 100% of the time but makes a huge difference for those step out moments on diesel, gravel, shiny tar etc.
Awesome fun, too.

Yes, I don't have any dirt experience. None.

I kept my head up, that saved me.

Going to get some dirt experience sounds like the plan thanks.