Court - What to expect

[Grahameeboy]

Toot toot has wrapped it up nicely. A few other points:

• The JP's could not give a flying fuck about you or your ticket.
• The coppers have ticketing targets to meet-you're easy meat.
• Hiring a lawyer [The only hope of getting of the ticket] will cost more than the fine.
• Lawyers are motivated by money, it may be in their best interest to string you out. Your guilt or innocence is of no consequence to them.
• Minor traffic offences are tax-plain and simple.
• Coppers will lie to get a conviction.
• The court system may change appearance date/s without informing you. This will result in a guilty finding.
• The copper may not turn up. This can happen multiple times with no visible impact on said dodgy copper. It can waste days of your time.
• Conversely if you cannot turn up a guilty result will be recorded.

Address the JP and copper as lying scum. By supporting a system that contains no effective real justice, both the coppers and JP's are lying to themselves and those they jokingly represent.

Or you could go in there prepared and not treat them like scum...and even if you lose you can still hold your head high.

At the end of the day you were breaching your licence conditions so the only way of getting off the charge is to show mitigating circumstances...

Personally I would accept the rap and move on...otherwise you may leave the Court being another SPB (much that I like him)....

[SixPackBack]

Or you could go in there prepared and not treat them like scum...and even if you lose you can still hold your head high.

At the end of the day you were breaching your licence conditions so the only way of getting off the charge is to show mitigating circumstances...

Personally I would accept the rap and move on...otherwise you may leave the Court being another SPB (much that I like him)....

A well educated realist. Minor traffic offences are tax.

[Katman]

I'll third the lying bit.

An IPCA investigation is currently underway of the cop who lied under oath at my hearing.

[breakaway]

An IPCA investigation is currently underway of the cop who lied under oath at my hearing.

What happened?

[jaykay]

A few points missed about the actual court hearing.

For the actual hearing itself (not the first one for a plea) the prosecution MUST disclose all the evidence they intend to use at the hearing well before the due date so you have time to prepare your defence. This must include all the evidence that the policeman will be stating in the witness box. If this evidence isn't in your hands at least a week before the hearing you can ask for an adjournment, (insufficient time to prepare your defence).

I would strongly suggest you don't go into the witness stand, most people don't realize you don't have to. This is a similar reason for NEVER talking to the police - anything you say will be used against you.

Basically if you haven't committed an offence, why talk? And if you have...let them prove it..........and don't talk.

You cannot talk your way out of alleged offence, but it's very easy to talk your way into one.

[paddy]

Thanks to all of those who have responded (or who respond after this post). I have sent some of you PMs to clarify a few points. At this stage I don't want to get into any details for risk of inadvertently prejudicing the hearing. Once it is all over and done with I will detail the process and the outcome for the learning of others.

Cheers,
P.

[CookMySock]

I would strongly suggest you don't go into the witness stand, most people don't realize you don't have to. This is a similar reason for NEVER talking to the police - anything you say will be used against you.

Basically if you haven't committed an offence, why talk? And if you have...let them prove it..........and don't talk.

You cannot talk your way out of alleged offence, but it's very easy to talk your way into one.

Ok so it is physically impossible for them to call you as a witness against yourself?

I understand that you cannot be compelled to give evidence against yourself. If they ask you a direct question that incriminates you, can you decline to answer it on that basis?

Can the prosecutor call the complainant (if there was one) as a witness?

We will be defending ourselves in court before long it seems.

thanks
Steve

[Madness]

Ok so it is physically impossible for them to call you as a witness against yourself?

The prosecution can only cross-examine the defendant, if and after the defence have chosen put the defendant in the box.

Can the prosecutor call the complainant (if there was one) as a witness?

Yes.

Disclaimer: I am not a trained legal professional and my comments here should not be taken as legal advice.

[CookMySock]

The prosecution can only cross-examine the defendant, if and after the defence have chosen put the defendant in the box.

If I am defending myself, may I do so outside of the box, and therefore not be subject to cross-examination?

Steve

[mowgli]

Ok so it is physically impossible for them to call you as a witness against yourself?

NZ Bill of Rights Act 1990 No 109 s25

25 Minimum standards of criminal procedure
Everyone who is charged with an offence has, in relation to the determination of the charge, the following minimum rights:
(a) The right to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial court:
(b) The right to be tried without undue delay:
(c) The right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law:
(d) The right not to be compelled to be a witness or to confess guilt:
(e) The right to be present at the trial and to present a defence:
etc...

[Madness]

If I am defending myself, may I do so outside of the box, and therefore not be subject to cross-examination?

Steve

Yes on both counts, IMO.

Disclaimer: I am not a trained legal professional and my comments here should not be taken as legal advice.

[mowgli]

If I am defending myself, may I do so outside of the box, and therefore not be subject to cross-examination?
Steve

Yes and No. In representing (defending) yourself you have the right to cross examine prosecution witnesses and to lead evidence from defence witnesses. If you elect to give evidence yourself then you should expect to be cross examined. If you do not give evidence yourself then you cannot be cross examined. So really it's up to you.

[Ixion]

After this the police officer that gave you the ticket will stand in the witness box and state his full name and job title, then swear on the bible that he will tell the truth etc.

: :

[Swoop]

The couple of dealings that I've had with JPs have shown me just how pathetic our lower legal system can be.

Yeah. I bet they enjoy getting a lecture from you whilst in court.

: :

Their hands must burn when they touch the "book of imaginary friends"...

[Patrick]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][*]Minor traffic offences are tax-plain and simple.

But so many enjoy paying this tax.... They must enjoy it, because so many do it again.... and again..... and again......

[*]Coppers will lie to get a conviction.

Yeah, because..... ummm.... shit.... got me there... Why? Will one lose their accumulated fly buys points if someone was to be found not guilty? I hope not, I've nearly got enough for the single slice toaster.....

[*]The court system may change appearance

Disguised as a WINZ building? Plastic moustache and glasses type of thing???

[*]The copper may not turn up. This can happen multiple times with no visible impact on said dodgy copper. It can waste days of your time.

So "dodgy" that the copper doesn't front up, charge will be tossed all together on the spot. But if the defendant fails to appear, that is all right then, it will be out off to another date.... again..... and again......

[*]Conversely if you cannot turn up a guilty result will be recorded.

Not quite - could go to a formal proof matter, depending what the charge is. For a speeding (minor) matter, that is likely.

For more serious matters, a warrant would be sought and once located, put off to new dates.... again... and to be repeated over and over in some instances.......................

[/LIST]Address the JP and copper as lying scum. By supporting a system that contains no effective real justice, both the coppers and JP's are lying to themselves and those they jokingly represent.

Yeah... do that..... You will get some laughs.... and a room all to yourself, hopefully without a urine soaked blanket and mattress if ya really lucky..... and if you're really really lucky, Bubba will have a playmate!

.....You cannot talk your way out of alleged offence, but it's very easy to talk your way into one.

Especially when you know you're as guilty as sin...

If I am defending myself, may I do so outside of the box, and therefore not be subject to cross-examination?

Steve

Nah. That is making "statements" and is not "evidence."

You can question and cross examine one giving evidence.

JP will tell ya there is sufficient evidence for the charge and ask if you wish to give defence evidence. If you don't want to, don't. They will then convict.

If you want to give defence evidence, then get in the box.... but expect to be questioned and cross examined, just as you have just done.....