Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 123

Thread: Skeptics take on the anti-1080 nutters, and others

  1. #31
    Join Date
    21st August 2004 - 12:00
    Bike
    2017 Suzuki Dl1000
    Location
    Picton
    Posts
    5,177
    Normally I agree with the skeptics, but in this case I do believe thay have got it wrong.

    Whilst I haven't seen the technical data or perused any origional studies on lethal doses, I have been through areas of native bush shortly before a 1080 drop and again a week after. The difference is astonishing. Plenty of birdsong and deer sign before the drop, and plenty of silence afterwards. also plenty of dead birds (mostly native) and some dead deer.

    In the late 1970's and early 1980's plenty of people were earning a good living from trapping and poisoning possums and selling the fur. In many areas the possum numbers were declining, yet there were still some more remote and inaccessible areas were this form of control couldn't work. Then came the animal rights and anti fur trade campaigners and possum hunting died as a profitable business. There are some alternatives to 1080 in most parts of the country so I'd be very interested to see the results of real studies and test data.
    Time to ride

  2. #32
    Join Date
    22nd October 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    Sold
    Location
    Coromandel Town
    Posts
    4,420
    Further to my last post, the cutting below was the lead article in this morning's Peninsula Post. The whole article rambles on a bit, but the property which the protesters invaded, doing a bit of damage en route apparently belongs to two respected conservationists and retired scientists (who are predictably not Greens). Their crime? Allowing one of their paddocks to be used as a landing pad for a chopper dropping 1080.

    The tired old "end justifying the means" cliche? Popularised by despots and lunatics round the world.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1080 copy.gif 
Views:	23 
Size:	224.3 KB 
ID:	143493  

  3. #33
    Join Date
    9th January 2008 - 12:44
    Bike
    CBR600F
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    715
    A book written by an acquaintance of mine:

    http://www.publishme.co.nz/shop/scen...are-p-412.html

    and her website

    http://www.stop1080poison.com/index.html

    For any who may be interested.

    Personally, I'm still sitting on the fence.
    "I's no' a bobike (motorbike) - i's a scooter!" - MsKABC's son, aged 2 years.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    26th February 2005 - 15:10
    Bike
    Ubrfarter V Klunkn,ffwabbit,Petal,phoebe
    Location
    In the cave of Adullam
    Posts
    13,624
    Oh. I thought this was a thread about people who didn't like Ducatis.

    Damn. I wasted all that time polishing up snide remarks about electrics.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  5. #35
    Join Date
    16th September 2005 - 14:45
    Bike
    2009 Ducati Streetfighter
    Location
    80k'sNWofWhangamomana
    Posts
    619
    Quote Originally Posted by renegade master View Post
    I also don't think that possums are so bad in NZ, and I don't think there are the number that doc say there are. I am concerned about ferrets, stoats and wild cats.
    Your having a laugh surely
    As mad as a spider, and twice as hairy !

  6. #36
    Join Date
    26th February 2005 - 15:10
    Bike
    Ubrfarter V Klunkn,ffwabbit,Petal,phoebe
    Location
    In the cave of Adullam
    Posts
    13,624
    Quote Originally Posted by McJim View Post
    1080 breaksdown in Water.

    I work with the shit and unless you are a possum you are fine.

    I'll bring some of the technical data home with me tomorrow but a deer would have to consume somat like 60kg of 1080 impregnated carrot to die and EVEN THEN you would have to eat somat like 3 entire deer to feel ill from it.
    According to http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalog...guidelines.pdf
    the oral dose of fluoroacetate sufficient to be lethal in humans is 2–10 mg/kg.

    So that'd be 200mg to 0ne GRAM for a human. To have a lethal dose of 60KG the animal would have to weigh 6000 to 30000 kg. That's one honking big deer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher
    Wrong. It does break down. Rainfall breaks it down very quickly. Only dogs and people are affected by eating dead animals poisoned by 1080.
    Where you comin' from Willis? Lotsa creatures will scavenge a dead beast.

    Rats, pigs, feral cats, lots of birds (crows, blackbirds, hawks, most raptors). Now to mention shrews ,weasels, politicians.

    OK some of those are dispensable in their own right. But not all. And once it's in the food chain who knows where it stops? Also, humans (and dogs) might eat a deer (or pig) that had been poisoned but hadn't yet died. "That was an easy shot!"

    Not to mention other possible scenarios. Carrots dropped, 1080 leaches from carrots into soil, earthworms and beetles eat contaminated stuff in soil, kiwis eat earthworms and beetles ?

    Oh, and you better not let Mrs Ixion hear you dissing Blossom the Possum. Mrs Ixion takes a keen interest in Blossom the Possum.

    Though, judging by the noise it makes running across the roof , I reckon maybe it DOES weigh 30000 kg !
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  7. #37
    Join Date
    19th October 2005 - 20:32
    Bike
    M109R, GS1200ss, RMX450Z, ZX-12R
    Location
    Near a river
    Posts
    4,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    According to http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalog...guidelines.pdf
    the oral dose of fluoroacetate sufficient to be lethal in humans is 2–10 mg/kg.
    Sodium fluoroacetate is the active incredient but it's a nautrally accuring agent in most plants etc
    But absorbed it's fluorocitrate and that's what does the damage

    The Grafs are bias through their one-sided arguements, staged carcases, sympathy milking videos.

    The wont speak to actual specialists in the subject for their so-called facts & figures

  8. #38
    Join Date
    9th January 2008 - 12:44
    Bike
    CBR600F
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by T.W.R View Post
    Sodium fluoroacetate is the active incredient but it's a nautrally accuring agent in most plants etc
    DoC/AHB etc. "1080 is naturally occurring."
    Fact: Plants produce fluoroacetic acid, but manufactured 1080 is sodium
    monofluoroacetate. Mr. Eason stated (April 2002) "Anyone comparing
    1080 poison with the naturally-occurring substance is stupid."


    (From http://www.stop1080poison.com/Page10.html)
    "I's no' a bobike (motorbike) - i's a scooter!" - MsKABC's son, aged 2 years.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    19th October 2005 - 20:32
    Bike
    M109R, GS1200ss, RMX450Z, ZX-12R
    Location
    Near a river
    Posts
    4,308
    Quote Originally Posted by MsKABC View Post
    DoC/AHB etc. "1080 is naturally occurring."
    Fact: Plants produce fluoroacetic acid, but manufactured 1080 is sodium
    monofluoroacetate. Mr. Eason stated (April 2002) "Anyone comparing
    1080 poison with the naturally-occurring substance is stupid."


    (From http://www.stop1080poison.com/Page10.html)

    I can play that game all day with this topic

  10. #40
    Join Date
    9th January 2008 - 12:44
    Bike
    CBR600F
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by T.W.R View Post
    I can play that game all day with this topic
    Well - go on then? We're waiting!
    "I's no' a bobike (motorbike) - i's a scooter!" - MsKABC's son, aged 2 years.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    19th October 2005 - 20:32
    Bike
    M109R, GS1200ss, RMX450Z, ZX-12R
    Location
    Near a river
    Posts
    4,308
    Quote Originally Posted by MsKABC View Post
    Well - go on then? We're waiting!
    Well instead of qouting 2nd hand from a dedicated "anti 1080" site

    do some research from specialists in the field

    like here for example.


    http://www.jstor.org/stable/3545249?cookieSet=1

  12. #42
    Join Date
    19th October 2005 - 20:32
    Bike
    M109R, GS1200ss, RMX450Z, ZX-12R
    Location
    Near a river
    Posts
    4,308

  13. #43
    Join Date
    31st January 2004 - 12:00
    Bike
    Repsol Blade & SV pro twin
    Location
    Hutt Hills
    Posts
    5,150
    Well its a damn shame that you can't really take a dog to the Hutt River now due to the risk of contaminated possum carcasses. Greater Wellington signs are all over the place. Together with toxic algae, the river is pretty whucked.
    Visit the team here - teambentley

    Thanks to my sponsors : The Station Sports Cafe and Bar | TSS Red Baron | Zany Zeus | Continental | The Office Relocation Company | Fine Signs | Stokes Valley Collision Repair | CBWD Digital Media Inbound Marketing

  14. #44
    Join Date
    10th December 2005 - 12:19
    Bike
    Hodor
    Location
    Hodor
    Posts
    2,028
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    A documentary which highlights the "distress, cruelty, horror, ecocide, cover-ups and contamination" involved in 1080-based pest control has won the Bent Spoon brickbat from the NZ Skeptics for 2009.

    "Poisoning Paradise - Ecocide in New Zealand" claims that 1080 kills large numbers of native birds, poisons soils, persists in water and interferes with human hormones. Hunters-cum-documentary makers Clyde and Steve Graf believe that 1080 has "stuffed the venison business", and have been travelling the country showing their film since March.

    The NZ Skeptics, along with other groups, are concerned that wide media coverage and nation-wide screenings of "Poisoning Paradise" will lead to a political push, rather than a scientifically based one, to drop 1080 as a form of pest control, with nothing effective to replace it.

    United Future leader Peter Dunne appeared in the film, and described 1080 as "an indiscriminate untargeted killer". Emotions run high in the debate, with one anti-1080 campaigner going so far as to hijack a helicopter at gunpoint and last month threatening to die on Mount Tongariro unless the documentary received prime-time billing.

    "Members of the NZ Skeptics are involved in various conservation efforts across the country. They have seen first-hand the effectiveness of 1080 drops and the brutal ineffectiveness of attempts to control pests by trapping and hunting, even in the smaller fenced arks, let alone in more rugged, isolated areas like Hawdon Valley or Kahurangi National Park," says Skeptics Chair-entity Vicki Hyde.

    "People say that 1080 is cruel - so is a possum when it rips the heads off kokako chicks. Environmental issues aren´t simple. We are forever walking a difficult balancing act. At this stage, 1080 is the best option for helping our threatened species hang on or, even better, thrive. It would be devastating for our wildlife were we to abandon this."

    Hyde has a particular interest in this area, having served for eight years on the Possum Biocontrol Bioethics Committee, alongside representatives from Forest & Bird, the RNZSPCA and Ngai Tahu. Over the past 20 years she has seen 1080 use become more effective with the advent of better knowledge and application methods, and acknowledges that there is always room for improvement.

    "We would dearly love a quick, cheap, humane, highly targeted means of getting rid of possums and other pests but until that day comes, we cannot ignore the clear and present danger to our native wildlife. To do so would be environmentally irresponsible in the extreme."

    Hyde notes that people should be careful in taking documentaries at face value. A 2007 TV3 documentary "Let Us Spray", and related news material, has just been cited as unbalanced, inaccurate and unfair by the Broadcasting Standards Authority.

    "We tend to assume that documentaries are balanced and tell us the whole story, but the increased use of advocacy journalism doesn´t mean this is always the case. After all, remember that psychic charades in programmes like `Sensing Murder´ are marketed as reality programmes!"

    The NZ Skeptics also applaud the following, with Bravo Awards, for demonstrating critical thinking over the past year:

    * Rebecca Palmer, for her article The Devil's in the Details (The Dominion Post 15 June 2009) pointing out that the makutu case owed more to "The Exorcist" than to tikanga Maori.

    "Exorcism rituals, regardless of where they come from, have been shown to harm people, psychologically and physically. There are over 1,000 cases of murder, death and injury recorded on the whatstheharm.net website purely as a result of exorcisms reported in the Western world press over the past 15 years. There are thousands more that occur, for the most part unregarded, in places like Africa, South America or Papua New Guinea. These are all needless victims, often injured by people who care for them and who tragically just didn´t stop to think about the nature of what they were doing."

    * Closeup for Hannah Ockelford´s piece Filtering the Truth (11 Sept 2009), regarding the dodgy sales tactics by an Australian organisation which claims that New Zealand's tap water can cause strokes, heart attacks, cancer and miscarriages. Paul Henry described the Australian promoter as a shyster using scare tactics targeting vulnerable people.

    "This sort of solid investigative reporting makes a welcome change from the celeb and animal stories that so often pass for news and current affairs these days."

    * Rob Harley and Anna McKessar for their documentary The Worst That Could Happen (Real Crime, TV1, 29 July 2009). They took a hard look at the increasing tendency for accusations of accessing computer porn to be made on unfounded grounds, and how it can have devastating consequences for people.

    "Unprotected Internet use can be as life-changing as unprotected sex. It is disturbingly easy to have your computer unwittingly contaminated, and that makes people very vulnerable to job dismissals or even prosecutions on the most circumstantial of evidence."

    * Colin Peacock and Jeremy Rose of Mediawatch on Radio New Zealand National

    "Every week Colin and Jeremy cast a critical eye on New Zealand media. That´s something we all should be doing in demanding that we get thoughtful, informed news and analysis from our media."
    I use Antiskeptic wipes around the house for germ control

  15. #45
    Join Date
    25th March 2004 - 17:22
    Bike
    RZ496/Street 765RS/GasGas/ etc etc
    Location
    Wellington. . ok the hutt
    Posts
    21,325
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    . .
    Ummm, heard of rats? Furry brown/black things, teeth, tails, fond of cheese, carry diseases? Not very popular in most parts?
    Of course I have. Heard of Chickens?



    . . . .no wait how does that add go? Herd of Cows?
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •