IMPORTANT - Submission To The Government

[cowpatz]

2 things.

2. How would it appear that Steven Joyce has done any such thing.

His comments on the blood alcohol limit and driving age for starters.
Whatever happened to individual responsibility and effective enforcement?

[What?]

What I find most unfair about the current system is that owners of more than one bike have to pay multiple ACC levies.

I sometimes wonder if ACC levies should be dropped ... The costs would be recovered by taxing fuel at a higher rate.

My thinking exactly. Plus that those riding/driving unregistered vehicles are still elligible for ACC support when it all goes wrong for them
My submission is in - all five pages of it.

[Genestho]

His comments on the blood alcohol limit and driving age for starters.
Whatever happened to individual responsibility and effective enforcement?

Hah! Good answer! Bit of media hype there though - I don't watch the news, and any articles I want to read or watch I find on the net.

In that case his one comment regarding BAC limits - appears to have been recycled over and over

I ask the same question! And a couple more!

The thing is the 61 intiatives have been offered to public on a plate, to comment on, submit on.
Whether or not public say makes a difference in this case - I'm not sure.

But you can't say you didn't know about it, and didn't have the chance to have your say when or if policies and /or legislation changes come up.

[Squiggles]

But you can't say you didn't know about it, and didn't have the chance to have your say when or if policies and /or legislation changes come up.

Exactly!

[PrincessBandit]

Unfortunately they will never be able to legislate against brain dead road users. I think a lot of our problems are exacerbated by our atrocious attitude of "me me me" on the road. How many times do we witness the "I'm not going to let you overtake me" attitude; how many times the "I'm not going to wait for another light cycle at these lights - my time is far too important to have to wait - I'm going to 'sneak' through on the very end of that orange"; how many times "I'm going to speed up so you can't merge into the space in front of me" on motorway onramps and lanes etc.

As a motoring nation we need to rethink our attitude to road usage. Heaven forbid that we should get like the States where you face a potential law suit at every turn, but hey we sure could learn a thing or two from them regarding letting people into spaces for lane changing for a start!

[cowpatz]

Heaven forbid that we should get like the States where you face a potential law suit at every turn, but hey we sure could learn a thing or two from them regarding letting people into spaces for lane changing for a start!

Well having driven a fair bit in the States and seen how they behave perhaps this is just what we need. As a pedestrian stepping off the sidewalk the approaching cars stop miles away from you...it is almost embarrassing. Here they speed up or see just how close it is possible to get without contact and then give the bird to boot.
The other excellent idea they have that our numb nuts politicians cant seem to get a handle on is compulsory third party insurance and in their case it is with the registration.
If you are pulled over the first things asked for are rego and licence.
Ironically here as the speed limits lower and more traffic lights are installed the frustration increases along with infringements.

[dpex]

It's not about fair, and I can guarantee that you wouldn't like the increased ACC levies the bureacracy around your idea would bring.

Fair? Don't make me laugh. Motorcyclists are a minority and do not even comprise a credible, threatening voting bloc, because they can't even stop giving each other shit for the type of bike they ride, let alone mount a campaign to prevent a change in Government policy.

A ride on Parliament doesn't let "them" know anything, show 'them" anything, inform "them" of anything.

Protest is a thing of the past. Governments need sound economic reasons to not ban motorcycles, and they need to be informed by professional lobby groups who can demonstrate the sound political and economic benefits of doing so.

Public submissions are a waste of time and change nothing.

Political power is horse trading. If keeping motorcycles legal in NZ came down to banning adventure riding to gain Green support against the bill banning motorcycling would the Adventure riders give publicly voiced support to the idea?

I think not. We're not a political movement, we have no clear long term goals or motivation to meet them and our Modus Operandi seems to consist of impotent whining in forums that have no bearing on outcomes. Like Public Submissions.

Here speaks the voice of a type I encountered with another well known KBer, today.

'What's the the point in submitting ideas?' said he and his wife. Remember, 80% of the population voted against the anti-smacking Bill, and what did that get?

And so, his and her ideology is the same as the above. Do nothing because we can't change anything anyway.

But if you read through the discussion document you will see there are glimmers of a genuine desire on the part of the officials to actually understand the issues and find ways of addressing them.

Sure, they're still focused on greater penalties, but I trust one of my submissions, which goes on a bit, may cause them to hesitate and rethink thir strategy.

But unless you, each biker, puts in your two bits, those at the top, who don't ride motorcycles are left making decisions based upon info they get from biased parties...ergo, the cops.

You may have read one of Scumdog's recent posts where he refuted my assertions that most drivers seem to navigate the highways in a reasonable manner. He came back with 'his' experiences of daily attending crashes.

But that's scumdog's job. Of course he will attend a far higher level of crashes than we ordinary folk ever see. So he becomes biased, like all cops. Daily they deal with the scum of the earth. Is it little wonder they presume that all but themselves are scum?

But it is these quite reasonably biased 'experts' who will shift thinking toward greater penalties and controls.

Unles you, you bikers, submit reasoned arguments to the contrary, then only the voices of the naturally biased will be heard.

[Genestho]

Brilliant Dpex, I'm inclined to agree having had a good read through it a while back, and read up on things!!
And there's consensus amongst quite a few people that the document seems well intended. Human nature shows you can't please all people all the time.

I think we are offered a diverse range of options across a range of topics, including education, training..

Cowpatz - compulsary third party has been offered as a youth iniative, ask for it to be extended...where you see fit, because - why?

You know, as I see it - you're given options, then at each topic...asked how can you improve that topic.

If you you think you can improve that topic, why not say it? if you have evidence - back it up..

What you fullas don't realise is that there are big blocks of certain groups that have vested interest, which is why things change not always in the interest of the individual.

Things come up for submission all the time, and again you'll find massive aligned groups with vested interest.

It's a difficult wall to push unless the people on the ground, and lots of them, take the opportunity to have their say, no point whinging after the fact.

[James Deuce]

Public submissions aren't a new thing.

All legislation, all potential changes to the way we live are supposed to be moderated by "Public Submissions".

I didn't say do nothing.

I said start a credible Political Movement that will have the clout to be listened to.

Public Submissions from individuals are a waste of time. Public Submissions from organisations with a clear objective, a cooperative attitude, and an understanding of give and take, coupled with the voter base and economic power will be listened to.

Too many bikers think they can go and shout at politicians or write one letter and have their point of view engaged. You have to take Jos' approach. Polite, pleasantly couched arguments based in reason and the desire to engage with officials about the plans they already have, delivered with thoughtfulness and the ability to judge when to push and when to sit down and be quiet.

Being told you're wrong all the time doesn't leave you open to taking on board ideas from a threatening party.

Most of all you need to work with your resources.

[James Deuce]

Brilliant Dpex, I'm inclined to agree having had a good read through it a while back, and read up on things!!

I think we are offered a diverse range of options across a range of topics, including education, training..

Cowpatz - compulsary third party has been offered as a youth iniative, ask for it to be extended...where you see fit, because - why?

You know, as I see it - you're given options, then at each topic...asked how can you improve that topic.

If you you think you can improve that topic, why not say it? if you have evidence - back it up..

What you fullas don't realise is that there are big blocks of certain groups that have vested interest, which is why things change not always in the interest of the individual.

Things come up for submission all the time, and again you'll find massive aligned groups with vested interest.

It's a difficult wall to push unless the people on the ground, and lots of them, take the opportunity to have their say, no point whinging after the fact.

Disconnected individuals with no common purpose are viewed as an opportunity to divide and conquer. There's never any effort by people like dpex to consider the people they ridicule as a necessary resource in an organised response to a potential threat.

Want me on side? At least stop treating me like an enemy or an idiot.

Do you guys want an organised response that looks like it may have implications for a Government come election time, or do you just want to keep chipping away at big problesm by yourself?

dpex's incorrect asessment of my post and blind acceptance of his analysis is the kind of thing that keeps me off side with any "protest" movement regarding the "fate" of motorcycling.

[MadDuck]

Fair? Don't make me laugh. Motorcyclists are a minority and do not even comprise a credible, threatening voting bloc, because they can't even stop giving each other shit for the type of bike they ride, let alone mount a campaign to prevent a change in Government policy.

Cynic I know I wont get crap on KB for the brand of motorcyle I ride - truely.

Damn we couldnt get them to remove the cheescutters as a collective group.

[James Deuce]

Damn we couldnt get them to remove the cheescutters as a collective group.

We never, IMO, presented anything other than a loosely arranged group of people with a common disinterest.

[Katman]

Damn we couldnt get them to remove the cheescutters as a collective group.

Motorcyclists have never (yet) been a collective group.

[MadDuck]

Motorcyclists have never (yet) been a collective group.

Oh really?

We damn well could be!

[p.dath]

...
I sometimes wonder if ACC levies should be dropped and registration should be free. The costs would be recovered by taxing fuel at a higher rate. That way you pay more the more you ride (expose yourself to risk) and the more you pollute. Heavy inefficient vehichles that chew up our roads would pay more than light efficient ones.

Playing devils advocate, that means 1100cc riders would be subsidising 50cc scooter riders, since they use so much less fuel.