Green bus lanes (again)

[flyin]

yeah those bus drivers are farkin crazy!! whenever i ride through the depot in the mornin they all have a go at me!!
I had a driver stop in the middle of lambton Q, corner of stout st, blocking traffic with passnegers on board, Driver got out of his bus and began abusing me for riding in the bus lane......... Twas the middle of the day and this guy was goin off at me, hollerin and rantin, i laughed at him!! then said loudly - "you just tried to knock my off my bike with a BUS and your saying i'm a wanker?" - the looks he got from everyone on the street..... hehe
that one provoked a few letters and phone calls!

[ManDownUnder]

I had seom fun with Transit regarding the "Buses Only" not being a specific exclusion to bikes, and likewise a sign that said

Bus Lane, 6:30am - 9:30am, Buses Only (did it mean the 6:30am-9:30 am meant it is not a bus lane outside those hours, did it mean buses only inside those hours, or a combination of the two?))

===
MDU I am sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you on your query regarding bus lane signs.

The Road User Rule defines a bus lane as "means a lane reserved by a marking or sign installed at the start of the lane and at each point at which the lane resumes after an intersection for the use of (a) buses, and (b) cycles and motorcycles (unless either or both are specifically excluded by the sign)."

A Bus Lane sign is in the form of symbol of a bus above the word LANE. When the lane is available only for buses the sign takes the form of a symbol of a bus with the word ONLY. Similarly the road marking used is BUS LANE or BUS ONLY respectively. These signs and markings are defined in the Land Transport Rule: Traffic Control Devices 2004. While it might be argued a bus from which cycles and motorcycles have been excluded might be more explicitly stated (eg BUS LANE, CYCLES AND MOTORCYCLES EXCLUDED) you will be aware of the need to keep signs as simple yet as clear as they can be made. It is considered the BUS ONLY message provides both the simplicity and clarity required.

The lanes in Auckland City are largely Bus Lanes (although I understand there are some small section of lanes which are exclusively for buses). The lanes on the motorways are exclusively for buses during the periods described. At other times these are 'emergency stopping lanes' and may then only be used for the purposes of stopping in an emergency ie not as a normal lane.

The use of the lanes are defined by road controlling authority bylaws and this may include the time they apply and the classes of vehicles to which they apply. The authority is Auckland City Council in the case of Auckland City, and Transit New Zealand for state highways - ie motorways. Once applied the Road User Rules defines road user obligations in regard to their use. Thus unless you are driving a vehicle of the class defines you may not drive along the lane nor may you park and you may only cross them if turning or moving into a car park on the other side of the lane.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you. Once again I apologise for the delay in replying.

R A (Bob) Gibson
Senior Engineer

[sAsLEX]

Similarly the road marking used is BUS LANE or BUS ONLY respectively. These signs and markings are defined in the Land Transport Rule: Traffic Control Devices 2004. While it might be argued a bus from which cycles and motorcycles have been excluded might be more explicitly stated (eg BUS LANE, CYCLES AND MOTORCYCLES EXCLUDED) you will be aware of the need to keep signs as simple yet as clear as they can be made. It is considered the BUS ONLY message provides both the simplicity and clarity required.

translation "we are to lazy to change into line with the new law requiring specific exclusion of vehicles not allowed to use the bus lanes"

[250learna]

I complained to the cops once because I was at the end of lambtonQ at the lights, I pulled away then managed to put my foot in the open door of the bus that was barging past, hitting my elbow twice, i hit the horn. I was mm's away from hitting the car in front cos the bus was overtaking it too... long and short, I survived with no visible damage. followed the bus driver parked in front at the bus station, gave him a polite warning.... geeze I am getting pissed off writing this... he thretened to drive over my bike... told me he didn't see me ...

The police did FUCK ALL!

I found that to be the case every time i made a complaint... im sad to say but in my experiences its more of a waste of time than anything to even talk to them, only ever got called back ones. I have rung them and they said they still have to process the case... never herd from again. must be too busy trying to give speeding tickets on straight roads

[Velox]

Thanks MDU!
So to sum it up - we can use "Bus Lanes" but not "Bus Only Lanes."

[Ms Piggy]

Ok - just looked at the WCC site and it says that we can use them all apart from ones that specifically say "buses only" which it reckons (in Wgtn) are....
1) southbound Lambton Quay, 2) Thorndon Quay, 3) the "operations" area at the Lambton interchange.
I thought the Karori one said it too but maybe not.

Thanks for the info Missy

[ManDownUnder]

Thanks MDU!
So to sum it up - we can use "Bus Lanes" but not "Bus Only Lanes."

You've got it! Enjoy them!

MDU

[Hitcher]

The Boys were busy re-greening the Ngaio Gorge bus lane the other night. The green paint there only lasts a few days before it disappears. What a waste of time. And money. And green paint.

[XP@]

I was feeling particularly beligerent last night so i took a ride aroung the lambton bus lanes...

and hey I noticed that the work ONLY has been greened out! Therefore you can ride the lanes! Their web site must be out of date.

So folks, go green in the CBD!

[sAsLEX]

I had seom fun with Transit regarding the "Buses Only" not being a specific exclusion to bikes, and likewise a sign that said

Bus Lane, 6:30am - 9:30am, Buses Only (did it mean the 6:30am-9:30 am meant it is not a bus lane outside those hours, did it mean buses only inside those hours, or a combination of the two?))

===
MDU I am sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you on your query regarding bus lane signs.

The Road User Rule defines a bus lane as "means a lane reserved by a marking or sign installed at the start of the lane and at each point at which the lane resumes after an intersection for the use of (a) buses, and (b) cycles and motorcycles (unless either or both are specifically excluded by the sign)."

A Bus Lane sign is in the form of symbol of a bus above the word LANE. When the lane is available only for buses the sign takes the form of a symbol of a bus with the word ONLY. Similarly the road marking used is BUS LANE or BUS ONLY respectively. These signs and markings are defined in the Land Transport Rule: Traffic Control Devices 2004. While it might be argued a bus from which cycles and motorcycles have been excluded might be more explicitly stated (eg BUS LANE, CYCLES AND MOTORCYCLES EXCLUDED) you will be aware of the need to keep signs as simple yet as clear as they can be made. It is considered the BUS ONLY message provides both the simplicity and clarity required.

They consider that this message above fufills the law, but obviously from his own statement it doesn't as we must be "SPECIFICALLY" excluded, BUS ONLY does not do this so I personally will still use the BUS ONLY lanes and will let you know how I get on if they ever catch me up!!

[ManDownUnder]

They consider that this message above fufills the law, but obviously from his own statement it doesn't as we must be "SPECIFICALLY" excluded, BUS ONLY does not do this so I personally will still use the BUS ONLY lanes and will let you know how I get on if they ever catch me up!!

Yeah well...

From what I recall of Statutory Interpretation there are a couple of approaches.

1) The Golden Rule. Interpret it the way it was intended (i.e. guess what was going throguh the minds of the highly paid public officials at the time).
2) The Literal Rule. Take it as it has literally been written.

Unfortunately this is a case where "specific exclusion" sit on both sides of the divide (i.e. riding in bus lanes is ok by the Literal rule, but not by the Golden Rule... probably).

I'm personally not greatly inconvenienced by it and take advatge of bus lanes where I can. but I'll just raise that for discussion. I saught the perspective of those who "designed" the rules simply because I knew I could play with the ambiguities... but it's not really worth my personal time to do so.

MDU

[sAsLEX]

Yeah well...

From what I recall of Statutory Interpretation there are a couple of approaches.

1) The Golden Rule. Interpret it the way it was intended (i.e. guess what was going throguh the minds of the highly paid public officials at the time).
2) The Literal Rule. Take it as it has literally been written.

Unfortunately this is a case where "specific exclusion" sit on both sides of the divide (i.e. riding in bus lanes is ok by the Literal rule, but not by the Golden Rule... probably).

I'm personally not greatly inconvenienced by it and take advatge of bus lanes where I can. but I'll just raise that for discussion. I saught the perspective of those who "designed" the rules simply because I knew I could play with the ambiguities... but it's not really worth my personal time to do so.

MDU

i suppose the onus is on those who write the laws to stop rushing in new laws, such as this and the boy racer laws, that are filled with grey areas which can be taken literally by some and the other way by others.

What can we do as public? Vote for a better government, but they are all the same media driven fools filled with empty promises around the time of elections.

[steved]

They consider that this message above fufills the law, but obviously from his own statement it doesn't as we must be "SPECIFICALLY" excluded, BUS ONLY does not do this so I personally will still use the BUS ONLY lanes and will let you know how I get on if they ever catch me up!!

Well, I got pulled over the other week at around 6pm in a motorway buslane. The cop seemed fairly knowledgable and stated that motorway bus lanes are the only ones that bikers can never use. Seems to be the consensus here as well.

[sAsLEX]

Well, I got pulled over the other week at around 6pm in a motorway buslane. The cop seemed fairly knowledgable and stated that motorway bus lanes are the only ones that bikers can never use. Seems to be the consensus here as well.

reason is they aint bus lanes but rather emergency stopping lanes that buses are allowed to use, they still have incorrect signage on the Northern motorway though last time i went through saying that they were bus lanes which would mean we are allowed to use them, but we aint

[Jantar]

Well, I got pulled over the other week at around 6pm in a motorway buslane. The cop seemed fairly knowledgable and stated that motorway bus lanes are the only ones that bikers can never use. Seems to be the consensus here as well.

Did the cop give you a ticket? Or is he actually as confused as the LTNZ law makers amd so just a caution?