Two-stroke website, worth a look

**Armitage Shanks** · 24th September 2009, 20:51

And well worth a visit too .... if only to add a bit of balance...for the guys that have'nt been there yet ...try http://twostrokemotocross.com/

Hope the link commutes to the site , if not maybe someone else , enjoy .

**Armitage Shanks** · 24th September 2009, 21:05

Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

And well worth a visit too .... if only to add a bit of balance...for the guys that have'nt been there yet ...try http://twostrokemotocross.com/

Hope the link commutes to the site , if not maybe someone else , enjoy .

My first time at pasting a link and it seems to have worked !

Pheew ....

**flyingcr250** · 24th September 2009, 21:14

Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

My first time at pasting a link and it seems to have worked !

Pheew ....

cool site, interesting read about the whole 4t VS 2t thing

**B0000M** · 25th September 2009, 07:28

very interesting. pretty much just says what we all know though

**scott411** · 25th September 2009, 08:01

ok i love 2 strokes as much as anyone and have done more than anyone else to make sure they are still raced here in NZ, but that site has some stuff on it that is like a 9/11 conspircy site,

the history of 4 stroke has massive holes in it, and leaves a heap out, the YZ400 was not the first competitive 4 stroke in the modern era, just the 1st mass produced japanese one, the Husqy 610 that Jackie Martins won the 1992 World 500 Champs was, then the Husabergs and KTM 4 strokes came next,

they state that Yamaha got the rules changed to allow the big 4 strokes in, that rule had been around for about 5 years before that, and Lance Smail had qualified for AMA races on KTM 4 strokes for a while (his one was 620cc) and even Mike Healey had qualified for the Daytona SX night show (not the main event) on a modifed XR400,

the AMA did allow an exemption for the factory's to race a prototype bike for 1 year each, KTM did it with Smail in 95, Yamaha with Doug Henry in 97 (he won the 98 title on a Production based machine, Honda used there exemption to test the CRF450 in 01 with Ryan Hughes, Kawi and Suzuki never used theirs,

and in NZ, and USA amatuer racing now 250 2t's race 250F's, and the 250F's dominate,

the truth is the 4 storkes are easier to ride, and more fun for a lot of people, and the sales figures show it, it is over 10-1 4 stroke MX 250cc bikes sold compared to MX 250 2t bikes sold, Honda has not made any 2 stroke for a while, Kawasaki has stopped as well, Suzuki has a token effort going, unless these bikes start selling they will stop as well,

**cheese** · 25th September 2009, 08:01

If you feel like mucking about with EFI, you could get a microsquirt unit. Looks ideal for making a EFI 2 stroke!

But anyway, if KTM have already built it, why isn't it in production!!!!

**scott411** · 25th September 2009, 09:10

not sure why 2 stroke injection has never taken off in dirt bikes, both kawasaki and yamaha have the Direct injection technoligy, they use it on there jet ski's and outboard motors, adn KTM are rumoured to have test it,

i have heard that it takes a lot of power to run the DI system, and that a single cylinder may not generate enough to make it vaible, although the KTM 2t electric starts seem to charge the battery so maybe there is answers,

**barty5** · 25th September 2009, 09:41

Originally Posted by scott411

not sure why 2 stroke injection has never taken off in dirt bikes, both kawasaki and yamaha have the Direct injection technoligy, they use it on there jet ski's and outboard motors, adn KTM are rumoured to have test it,

i have heard that it takes a lot of power to run the DI system, and that a single cylinder may not generate enough to make it vaible, although the KTM 2t electric starts seem to charge the battery so maybe there is answers,

yes but from a lot of people i have spoken to their charging system also fail quite a lot. apart from wickedly over $$ battery you have to have to fit.

**scott411** · 25th September 2009, 09:52

Originally Posted by barty5

yes but from a lot of people i have spoken to their charging system also fail quite a lot. apart from wickedly over $$ battery you have to have to fit.

i have heard the same thing, could be something in it, a full charging system could pull a lot of torque out of a two stroke,

**B0000M** · 25th September 2009, 11:32

Originally Posted by scott411

, but that site has some stuff on it that is like a 9/11 conspircy site,

it did kinda give me that impression as well!

**Armitage Shanks** · 25th September 2009, 19:33

Originally Posted by B0000M

it did kinda give me that impression as well!

Conspiracy theories aside, I still wonder why the big 4 were in such a hurry , or hastened to hurry and move to delete the 2 Strokes and clear them from their lineup, specifically the Open class machines.

Yamaha and Suzuki were the first to drop the RM500 and YZ490 , thankfully Honda and Kawasaki continued with their venerable CR and KX 500's until 2001 and 2004 . Why were they dropped ?

The Kawasaki 2004 Brochure Lineup does'nt even include the KX500 , last model, which was available on special order only ..go figure. I'm lucky to still have the brochure ...and the Bike .

**cheese** · 25th September 2009, 20:34

America is 1/3 of the dirtbike market. Many places have virtually banned 2 strokes cause of emissions, so that doesn't help. Plus most people jump on a 4 stroke and are faster than on a 2 stroke, so it all comes down to sales and American bullshit.

Interesting point on power required to drive EFI - but injectors only draw around 5a max and the electronics would be bugger all. So if they were smart about it they could easily run it. After all my old MB50 2 stroke road bike ran a lighting coil and charged a battery. A typical headlight on scooter even probably draws more current than a EFI system. I'd say it hasn't come out because its easier to just leave things as they are on 2 strokes and sell more 4 strokes because that is what the market wants.

Its going to take a gamble from one of the bike companies to make a DI 2stroke that will be competitive against the 4 strokes, but its still going to have unfair competition when you race a 250 against a 450. Or have they upped the capacity like the 144's that can race against the 250 4s?

**scott411** · 25th September 2009, 20:42

Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

Conspiracy theories aside, I still wonder why the big 4 were in such a hurry , or hastened to hurry and move to delete the 2 Strokes and clear them from their lineup, specifically the Open class machines.

Yamaha and Suzuki were the first to drop the RM500 and YZ490 , thankfully Honda and Kawasaki continued with their venerable CR and KX 500's until 2001 and 2004 . Why were they dropped ?

The Kawasaki 2004 Brochure Lineup does'nt even include the KX500 , last model, which was available on special order only ..go figure. I'm lucky to still have the brochure ...and the Bike .

if we put the 500 into perspective, in the 4 years previous to 2004, they sold 10 new KX500's in NZ, (and i got 2 of them), in the last year (2004) they sold 12, people stopped buying them, and that is what stopped building them, unfortunalty for my personal beliefs, the same has happened to 125's and 250's 2t's

**That Guy** · 25th September 2009, 20:52

The article on the site on displacement comparison doesn't make sense to me. It calls for 250 two strokes to race with 250 4 strokes- - the theory is that it is unfair for a 450 4 stroke to be up against a 250 2 stroke because their displacements are different. I thought one of the reasons a two stroke could roughly perform the same as a larger, even twice capacity 4 stroke, was that the 2 stroke has a big advantage by making power even second stroke, ie twice as often as a 4. The site ignores this point.

Why bother with the conspiracy theory? 2 strokes and 4 strokes who cares they're all cool. Look at KTM they are selling plenty of 2ts.