Public vs private land - Access, the official guide

[RedKLR650]

Hi all,

Interesting item in yesterdays news about the government FINALLY going some way towards clarifying the public's rights over particular pieces of land. Looks look they will eventually have an online map covering all of NZ with ALL areas of public access clearly marked

Should save the old paper road issue too :-)

http://www.3news.co.nz/Online-mappin...ticleID=123458

Cheers, Stu

[cooneyr]

Sounds good but I'm not convinced - yet. Read the herald story http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10600579

Looks like this online mapping is being prepared by the New Zealand Walking Access Commission (website here) so they may not get too excited about the paper roads etc that we like to play on. Also I suspect this will be a big job with all the research needed so dont hold your breath.

Lastly - keep an eye out for consultation oportunities cause we may have to fight to keep some of our favorite tracks open.

Cheers R

[dino3310]

Quote: The new scheme was outlined in a draft strategy out today and aims to stop meandering hunters, fishers and walkers from going where they are not welcome. :Quote.

so us meandering bikers are sweeeet then

[That looks like fun]

You meander, me I ride like the wind doug
and now we wait

[JimO]

actually i dont see any reason why people should have access to someone elses property

[cooneyr]

actually i dont see any reason why people should have access to someone elses property

Thats not the point of the project. It is to let people know where there is public land that they are allowed to use. Also it will provide farmers info (I'll bet its with the farmers permission) where you might need to get hold of the farmers for any reason. This is not about access to private land.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

actually i dont see any reason why people should have access to someone elses property

Equally, I don't see any reason why people should be denied access to public property.

[Monstaman]

Agree with this, we had a German grape grower in North Canterbury point a gun at us for being on a river bed on public land, he was angry saying it was his and told us to fuck off, turns out we were right and he got told off by the feds but we should not have to put up with that sort of shit end of story.

Do you know the legal definition of a fence requires it to keep stock in, it does not require them to keep humans out.

Far too long we have been locked out of paper roads, tracks etc so hoping this might go some way to doing something positive to clearing this up.

[Coldrider]

It is only clarifying land available for public access, it is not changing the law of tresspass.

[CookMySock]

I am always wary of changes such as this. Often when boundaries are clearly defined we lose more than we gain.

Consider for a second whether you would like the law to clarify it's position on lane-splitting? Probably not?

What about the recent document on procedures when group riding? Plenty of good ideas in it, but what if some bean counter thought so as well, and made a submission to parliament using it, specifically to address motorcycle road safety? Perhaps you think there would be no cause for them to do this? but there is...

Be careful asking the question that cannot be unanswered easily.

Steve

[JimO]

Equally, I don't see any reason why people should be denied access to public property.

i do, especially if you have to cross my property to get there

[Skinny_Birdman]

Thats not the point of the project. It is to let people know where there is public land that they are allowed to use. Also it will provide farmers info (I'll bet its with the farmers permission) where you might need to get hold of the farmers for any reason. This is not about access to private land.

Well said. Also remember that there is a pretty vast gulf between the ambition to take on a project like this, and the accomplishment of said ambition. Take for example the NZ Walkways Act initiative, which was dreamed up in the 1960's to create a walkway the length of the country. 2009 and we aren't there yet. Hopefully it will create some surveying work though, eh?

Equally, I don't see any reason why people should be denied access to public property.

I can think of a few reasons. In the interests of defence and for H & S reasons would be two. A more relevant third reason might be if that public property is subject to a lease. If you rent a property your landlord can't allow his friends to wander freely across the property, and while there isn't an exact parallel with (for example) high country pastoral leases, the public don't, and never have enjoyed unfettered access to such areas, and I don't for a moment suppose that this is about to change.

[Skinny_Birdman]

Lastly - keep an eye out for consultation oportunities cause we may have to fight to keep some of our favorite tracks open.

I wonder what the High Country Accord will have to say when this does come out for public consultation. I bet they aren't thrilled about the prospect, and they are a reasonably grunty lobby group.

[CookMySock]

It would be good if such a site would allow members of the public to register and get a good reputation from landowners ala trademe feedback. If problems were to be had, it would quickly become clear whether it was some individual, member of the public OR land owner. This way, land owners OR public would get warned in advance, depending on who pointed the shotgun etc.

I doubt land owners are interested in playing telephone receptionist to hourdes of people. Perhaps if folks could simply register on the site and state their intent to cross said private land, and then proceed. At least if there was some problem then there is a record of who was where and at what time.

Steve

[cooneyr]

.....Consider for a second whether you would like the law to clarify it's position on lane-splitting? Probably not?.....

The law is quite clear on this - no undertaking i.e. on the LHS of a vehicle in the same lane as it. To lane split you are really actually over taking so make sure your on the LHS of the lane line if there is another lane to your right, that you are indicating. Done. Not so easy in practice however which is always the problem.

i do, especially if you have to cross my property to get there

Still not the point. This is why the farmers details would be provided, with their permission. If a peice of public land is land locked by private land then this mapping is not suggesting you have a right to cross the private land to get to it (which you don't). Simply they are telling you where it is and the details of the people to contact (if they want) to get there.

I wonder what the High Country Accord will have to say when this does come out for public consultation. I bet they aren't thrilled about the prospect, and they are a reasonably grunty lobby group.

Which is exactly why we have to get off our arses and make submissions as a user group if necessary.

It would be good if such a site would allow members of the public to register and get a good reputation from landowners ala trademe feedback. If problems were to be had, it would quickly become clear whether it was some individual, member of the public OR land owner. This way, land owners OR public would get warned in advance, depending on who pointed the shotgun etc.

I doubt land owners are interested in playing telephone receptionist to hourdes of people. Perhaps if folks could simply register on the site and state their intent to cross said private land, and then proceed. At least if there was some problem then there is a record of who was where and at what time.

Steve

Not sure I like either of those ideas. First becomes way too much of a he said she said game i.e. your an arogant prat so even though you were withing the law I give you bad rep and then you fight and say I was within the law and I dont like you give me bad rep etc etc. If everybody played nice this would work be we know this the real world and that don't happen.

Re the second idea this where farmers will get to opt out of having their details on the system to avoid this. It would not be appropriate at all for a biker etc to just leave a message and then just go for it. Case in point some of the unfenced paper roads that currently have young lambs on them. I've tried to get access to two such roads for this weekend but have been politely asked not (and I'm not) to by the farmers who were very appreciative of me ringing.

There is a Request for Proposal (closed now) for the online maping on the Walking Commision web site. I plan on reading this cause it should outline the scope of the online maping project and what the objectives/desired outcomes of it are.

Cheers R