Public vs private land - Access, the official guide

[Skinny_Birdman]

There is a Request for Proposal (closed now) for the online maping on the Walking Commision web site. I plan on reading this cause it should outline the scope of the online maping project and what the objectives/desired outcomes of it are.

Call me a moron, but I can't find their website. Can you point me to it, and specifically to this document? My interest is piqued.

[cooneyr]

Call me a moron, but I can't find their website. Can you point me to it, and specifically to this document? My interest is piqued.

It is the http://www.walkingaccess.org.nz site. Look on the Latest News page for the Request for Proposal. Also there looks to be some interesting documents under the Publications section on unformed roads and public access along waterway margins. Probably the bit we should all read is the Draft Outdoor Access Code which is on the latest news page. Heaps of stuff to read on that site!

Cheers R

[warewolf]

I can think of a few reasons.

All valid reasons, but that's quite different to some bloke acting like a land baron and denying public access to (usually adjacent) public land simply because he doesn't want people there.

[cooneyr]

Had a read of the Request for Proposal and the most interesting bit is para 2.3, of Annex A which reads

The type of land that will be of particular relevance are formed and unformed legal roads and margins strips, esplanade reserves and strips, the various other forms of the "Queens Chain", public reserves, and other publicly owned land where the Crown or local authority responsible for the land is unlikely to oppose walking access.

The other document that is interesting is the Draft National Strategy for Walking Access which has the following info on Page 5

Where it does not compromise walking access, usage may be extended by agreement to other forms of access, such as mountain-biking, off-road vehicles and hunting/carrying guns.

And the follow on page 8

There is an extensive amount of unformed legal road (estimated at 56,000 km) that provides potential access to the public through rural land. While these unformed legal roads have the same legal status as formed public roads, their diverse locations and topography means that some of them are not practical for walking access.

56000kms is one hell of a lot of unformed roads

And the follow on page 10

Over time the Commission plans to provide maps that will show the location of all free, certain, enduring, and practical walking access. In addition, the maps will show:
• routes on private property, including Māori land, that may be accessible on payment of a fee or are only available at stated times (for example, private walking tracks);
• public and private access and, where appropriate, the contact details or persons to call to gain access to these routes; and
• routes available for activities other than walking (for example, cycling, vehicles, dogs).

All in all this looks pretty positive but the time frames are going to be looooooong

Draft public access mapping database developed and piloted with two user groups by 30/12/10

Cheers R

[Skinny_Birdman]

Looks pretty positive but the time frames are going to be looooooong

Interesting stuff. I have the distinct feeling that this won't resolve the issues with adjoining landowners, albeit that it may help to place the public in a stronger legal position. The real unresolved issue in my mind is that a lot of the 56000km of paper road and marginal strips are a) very poorly defined and b) often very difficult to recognise. Only a week ago my boss happened upon a strip of unregistered Crown Land (a potential source of access) along a river in South Canterbury which isn't shown in the cadastral record (ie Landonline, Terraview and whatever people use in their GPS), and is almost impossible to see on the record copy of the Pastoral Lease. He had only spotted it because he is a very diligent surveyor, and had requested a copy of the previous lease, which showed the strip quite clearly. In this case the leaseholder could have been forgiven for thinking that no such strip existed. Is the company charged with executing this project going to examine every title and PL in the country, or are they going to look at Landonline and say "There's a road there, we'll check the title."

[NordieBoy]

Is the company charged with executing this project going to examine every title and PL in the country, or are they going to look at Landonline and say "There's a road there, we'll check the title."

Like the Tasman District Council.
They can't give a list of paper/public roads but can look them up for you if you give them names/coords.

[cooneyr]

...... Is the company charged with executing this project going to examine every title and PL in the country, or are they going to look at Landonline and say "There's a road there, we'll check the title."

Without being a surveyor and understanding much of this it would seem that the RFP is very quite on issues like this. Para 2.2 of the RFP hints at the level of research that is expected for the online mapping system.

The intention is to use existing public cadastral records that show public access and land properties in relation to standard 1:50 000 topographic mapping and imagery of physical terrain, such that the location and extent of areas over which the public of New Zealand have legal waling access can be readily ascertained

I'd suggest that they do not intend to go to anywhere near the level of detail that you suggest SkinnyB. I guess that this means that the public may not have access to the total ammount of land they potentially could. However if the Walking Commision can gaurentee that the public does have access to the land they identify (map) then it is bloody good step in the right direction. This system will fail miserably if they do not meet this requirement because it would be challanged in the courts and would become a farce.

Cheers R

[Skinny_Birdman]

However if the Walking Commision can gaurentee that the public does have access to the land they identify (map) then it is bloody good step in the right direction. This system will fail miserably if they do not meet this requirement because it would be challanged like made in the courts and would become a farce.

I think that pretty much sums up my concern. How will they guarantee access over paper roads in a way that will stand up in court? The Walkways Commission may not realise that this is a can of worms, and that it may be a case of physically delineating walkways (ie pegging them), or we will be in the same position we are now - relying on the goodwill of the adjoining landowners. As I have often noted before, you can't just download the cadastral record into your handheld GPS and wander out there, and be secure in the knowledge that you are on the paper road. There is just way too much uncertainty, and some landowners will have the knowledge and the coinage to challenge you.
Of course, this makes surveyors indispensible.....