Abs?

[paturoa]

I've never ridden a bike with ABS but I'm not going to pretend I could reliably stop faster in an emergency. So I'm in favour.

This is quite a good watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0

Edit: and this one too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfffXkoJvUU

[Number One]

THIS is one of the best ABS setups I've seen


ok leaving this serious thread NOW

[paddy]

Right-o, I going to try and steer the thread back to my original question if I can:

If you exclude the likes of gravel riding, and set aside you opinion as to whether ABS is a good idea or not, why should someone with a non-ABS bike be able to stop more quickly IF THEY APPLY THE SAME TECHNIQUE on both machines.

The example that is always given compares a competent rider in controlled conditions braking right at the verge of loss of adhesion, but then compares this to an ABS equiped bike where braking has been applied with maximum force. It just seems to me that you could apply the non-ABS technique on an ABS machine and therefore this particular argument for NOT fitting bikes with ABS seems a bit void...

[paddy]

you cant do stoppies with abs and that sucks

Serious question - why not? I could understand with traction control that is design to try and keep the bike stable, but pure ABS. You don't want the front wheel to lock up when you are doing a stoppie surely?

[paddy]

Darn - saw the title, grabbed my camera and ripped off my shirt for you .........

Arr, shucks. I didn't know I could have that effect on a guy. :-) I thought It was in capitals when I typed it in but obviously not. (Unless the forum "fixed" it for me.)

[YellowDog]

Paddy mate, I am one of those wankers who used to believe he was as good as ABS and hence doesn't need it. I believed that I had my own ABS and also quite like to lock the back wheel for effect.

When I was looking at new bikes, my wife game me a BTW ultimation. "If your new bike doesn't have ABS, you aint having it."

But I don't need ABS. Bikes have great brakes and it'll be fine.

WRONG:
Bike without ABS = No Pillion and No sex.
Bike with ABS = whatever you want.

Anyway, now I have had ABS for a year and a bit, I would thoroughly recommend it. Yes you can Stoppie if you so wish. You can ride on gravel. The early ABS systems were a bit suspect however the modern ones are highly sophiosticated. 100 adjustments per second is more than my arrogant right foot can handle.

Once you get ABS, you then go out of your way to try and break it (find its limits). I don't think it has ever cut in for me on a dry road however it has saved my bacon a couple of times in the wet, when silly things have happened.

So my conclusion is that you can do everything you want to do with a non ABS model. BUT for riding in the wet, it is a valuable lifeline. I would have crashed at least once in the last year without ABS.

The one negative thing I would say is that I do now ride a lot more confidently in the wet than before as stopping is so easy. This could be a false sense of security.

[Ender EnZed]

The example that is always given compares a competent rider in controlled conditions braking right at the verge of loss of adhesion, but then compares this to an ABS equiped bike where braking has been applied with maximum force. It just seems to me that you could apply the non-ABS technique on an ABS machine and therefore this particular argument for NOT fitting bikes with ABS seems a bit void...

As I understand it this theory assumes that the ABS intervenes before the loss of adhesion*. And so applying a properly executed non-ABS technique to an ABS machine will still trigger the ABS to back off on the braking pressure because it thinks the wheel is going to lock.

If I remember correctly the first ABS equipped vehicle was the Mercedes S-Class in around 1978 and in the magazine tests at the time it did take longer to stop on dry tarmac than the same car without ABS. This is not the case with modern ABS equipped cars and quite possibly some motorcycles as well. Motorcycle manufacturers have generally been far behind the cages in terms of electrickery like ABS and traction control. Probably because customers don't like added weight for something they think can do better.

*I don't acually know, I'm not a motorcycle engineer. This seems the only way the anti-ABS arguements make sense.

[SMOKEU]

If I remember correctly the first ABS equipped vehicle was the Mercedes S-Class in around 1990

My mates old 1987 E30 325i has ABS.

[Ender EnZed]

Just read Wikipedia. Don't listen to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

[NDORFN]

I drink beer and still have abs, they are just coverred up now!

You mean you've got an AB.

[paturoa]

You mean you've got an AB.

More of a FL AB

[CookMySock]

For the sake of argument, lets consider a very simplistic view of ABS, that when a wheel stops rotating, the brake pressure is momentarily released before being re-applied (and repeat ad infinitum).

Uhh, I think that is too simplistic to be usable. I think you will find the system is quite sensitive to "slip" and will maintain the best possible braking.

Lets also consider, that it seems to be a fairly common argument that a competent and practised rider can stop a non-ABS bike more quickly than an ABS equipped bike. For the sake of the argument, lets just assume that the experienced rider won't just panic and grab a handful of brake in the same way that a learner might.

I think it won't matter a toss how much brake he or she grabs. The ABS system is pretty clever, and if it's not, then it should be.

The thing is with bikes, its not really an exact science what a bike does mid-corner when a wheel starts to slip, and theres not really an established way to measure it. Quite the opposite to a car, where you have four wheels where you can take the differential of the square of the difference, and do the rest in software.

There was a thread some months ago, where it was proposed to invent a device that watched the bikes' motion in full 3D using g-force sensors, and continuously map its trajectory, permitting the CPU to "learn" and "grow" with the rider, and suggest when some "oddness" was detected. Some seconds after what the rider perceived to be a slide or some other inappropriate action he could glance at the dash and see whether the computer said "uh dont do that again, son" or whether it said nothing at all. There was no action taken with the brakes or any input to the bikes' mechanicals - it was merely an experienced "person" to be with you to offer "their" interpretation.

In five to ten years, such a thing will exist.

Steve

[TonyB]

Darn - saw the title, grabbed my camera and ripped off my shirt for you .........

I thought you only did that in return for chicks getting their tits out?

[jrandom]

You mean you've got an AB.

A washing machine ab.

[AllanB]

ABS wins my vote for panic stops.

I had a situation a few months back coming around a blind corner at speed to find a car on my side of the road passing a flock (fuck?) of cyclists!

The rear brake on my Hornet has bugger all feel - push your foot down it feels like a bit of wood, there is not any feel of progression until it locks.

Back to the corner - I hit the brakes in panic to wash off speed, front dives back end gets lighter and locks up - I am now in a high speed broadie, crossed up with that car still bearing down on me.
Best results - off the brakes and squeeze past the car ..... should have seen the looks on their faces (bastards).

ABS would have helped, there certainly would not have been the big broadie and saved me some undie scraping when I got home.

And yes there would have been less panic if I was riding slower but it would still have been close. That corner is now a very legal speed one for me!

I also noted that in the panic the bodies natural instinct to tighten up the muscles is a good abdominal exercise ...........