Party tricks - everyone needs one!Originally Posted by TonyB
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Party tricks - everyone needs one!
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Racers, good racers can sit at the point where the rear is just lifting braking into a corner. Apparently. Someone commented on here watching Stroud and one other rider both doing the same thing.
ABS is insufficiently advanced to be reliable.
BMW have a problem with it failing on the F800S and ST. So much so that the new F800R now comes with a knob to adjust the sensitivity of the ABS to wind the problem out. They just won't retro fix the problem.
There have been a number of crashes as a result of the system and personally ABS must be switchable. To have a bike with a lethal ABS and not being able to disconnect it within the warranty period for the bike is ludicrous.
ABS in theory sounds good and works better when you have four wheels and four sensors.
If anyone from BMW reads this and has a problem. PM me. My fault is well known. I've had a near miss and I can produce rider reports on the crashes.
Personally I think the idea of ABS is great for most riders but in the wet and on loose metal surfaces I'd want it off.
We also have traction control now.
I hate being a guinea pig for BMW ABS.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single motorcycle
Click here for: - Changing Dyslexia, Depression, Anxiety, Trauma, Phobia's, Allergies etc
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I'm thinking you can't. The ABS system relies on differential of wheel rotation and then partially releases until it detects comparable rotation to be within designed parameters and then reapplies full and then releases a little etc. Giving the pulsing. A skilled rider is able to take in more than wheel rotation, they have sound, feel of the bike, and many other inputs and can also make a call that they are not in danger and therefore don't have to release the brakes as much as the electronic system does.
I think there is the ability to increase the number of sensors to deal to making the ABS far better. I just don't think the manufacturers are interested and the buyers don't care.
ABS on motorbikes because of the limited sensors is far from perfect. So my bet is it'll never match a skilled rider. At present the flaws in the designs are such that ABS sometimes is far worse than even an average rider.
Just to keep things serious.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single motorcycle
Click here for: - Changing Dyslexia, Depression, Anxiety, Trauma, Phobia's, Allergies etc
YES
Im still not convinced about ABS on a bike, on a car yes as ABS is designed to still be able to steer the vehicle around an accident, it was not designed to stop a car any quicker.
on a bike how the fuck are you supposed to steer out of an accident.
all i can see is a lowside/highside happening while trying to counter steer around the supposed accident about to happen in an area that is near impossible to manouver in.
Don't forget to bring a towel
In an emergency situation such as when a kid runs out in front of a vehicle or when a pissed idiot runs a red light, most people slam on their brakes as hard as they can which will lock the wheels on their car if they don't have ABS. When the wheels are locked a car it can't stop as quickly as when the wheels are near their lock up point. So ABS on cars is partially designed to help drivers stop more quickly.
BogOff-Cant you see I'm busy?
ABS is designed to helkp a car stop quicker than without ABS.
The same is the case for a motorbike and is far more relevant for steering around a poitential accident.
If you reduce your speed from 100kph to a stop at max braking, the chances are that you will fall off, being unable to cope with the bikes forces from such rapidly change to the momentum. But if you can reduce from 100kph to 20kph, without skidding, you can then safely steer around the obstruction.
It works and I have done it in the wet. Just go back a month or so and read the number of KBers who slipped off at low speed in the wet due to slippery surfaces. ABS helps to keep control, in such situations.
The best part about ABS is that it makes little or no difference to general riding and only cuts in for emergency situations.
Double shot!!
You have to do your best. Grip the bars and steer the fucker pronto, or meet your maker, son.
If you are upright, then you aren't on the ground. While you are not on the ground - you can steer. So steer, and make it quick please.
Steve
"I am a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."
"read what Steve says. He's right."
"What Steve said pretty much summed it up."
"I did axactly as you said and it worked...!!"
"Wow, Great advise there DB."
WTB: Hyosung bikes or going or not.
Loving life in the Bay
There's your problem in yellow. Look to the gap (your escape) not the accident unfolding. You'll be surprised how you somehow end up making the required turns.
Even before that point though you can help yourself out by remembering that a bike is less stable than a car. So maintain clear space around you, more so than you would in a car.
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But at least you can still steer if you're already in a turn. You can't if your front wheel is sliding out from under you
Pasta farts
While you do have valid (and proven) concerns, it is generally limited to that model.
The dial on the 800R sounds like a neat idea.
The latest version of ABS on the K1300S/R is fantastic from all reports, as is Honda's new system. That one however, Brake by wire, gives me the willies.
Then again I effectively have the same thing with servo assist. If the brake pump aint going, then I aint stoppin!
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I have old bikes..... Only 1 of our bikes has disc brakes and that has a linked system that some hate but I like very much so I'm probably not qualified to comment but;
When technology starts standing between me and the visceral enjoyment of riding and the mastery of machine and motion and when the law mandates that I 'must' have these things I shall give up riding motorcycles and sit in front of a playstation for my thin thrills.
I'm not anti technology at all - I just don't like technologies that dumb things down. Human experience is about stretching and sometimes over reaching and learning and i don't want it on a motorcycle. Sure, put it on a car etc, who cares...
Double shot!!
One does not equate to the other.
In an emergency, you are better to steer without care or regard while you are still upright. Coz if you don't, you soon won't be.
I disagree (abusive red rep to follow lol) but seriously I do not think a rider at speeds over 80km/hr is capable of any of the actions you suggest, especially during a panic stop, and then there is his or her decision making process clouded by fear, and the very very limited time to react, I just don't think their ability at that point remotely approaches what ABS is capable of achieving.
It is easy to imagine we have godlike riding abilities (can read tyre rotational speed, can sense danger round corners) but it only takes a few nasty incidents to prove that we do not. The reality is we are mere mortals who often overthink our abilities, and ABS is more like a safety parachute to haul you out of danger when we forget it.
Steve
"I am a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."
"read what Steve says. He's right."
"What Steve said pretty much summed it up."
"I did axactly as you said and it worked...!!"
"Wow, Great advise there DB."
WTB: Hyosung bikes or going or not.
Pasta farts
I love the race track and giving the bike a hiding through the twisties. I dont see how ABS takes away from that at all, you have to near lock the thing to get it to do anything. By near lock I mean get the wheel turning slower than the road is going past, so not stopped...
Unless you have a habit of doing that I dont see where ABS can remove the experience...
If they started insisting on traction control or the like however...
<<----- My dream bike.
Bullshit.
Maybe Rossi or Stoner, but for 99% of the riders on the road, I would really doubt it.
Especially when there's a lot of other things going on.
There's so many comparisons done, you could probably finda heap on 'you pube' with side-by-side results, everyone iv'e ever seen the ABS wins.....usually by a lot.
A lot of you seem to think it's all about the superb wonderful rider skills. Guess again, high speed accidents don't quite plan out like on your practise runs.
In real life "oh shit" situations, no matter how amazing you think you are, you will probably fuck-up. Having the ABS to prevent the skid would probably do wonders for you.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jamside down.
A cat glued to some jam toast will hover in quantum indecision
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat
Fix a computer and it'll break tomorrow.
Teach its owner to fix it and it'll break in some way you've never seen before.
Forum whore
+10 on this one.
They don't call it panic-braking for nothing, and upon two wheels when panic-braking is not the best place in the world to be.
Every review of that new Honda system available on the CBR1000R (of all bikes) rates it extremely well -apparently you don't notice it other than the wheels not locking up.
If it's a option on a new bike I'd pay the extra. Well apart from the 800 BMW after doing a Internet search!
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