Matching numbers?

[Voltaire]

Why is one of the most asked questions on TM " does it have matching numbers?"
I'd be more interested in if it ran well and what condition its in.
Why do people get so hung up on some numbers stamped into the frame and engine case?
No one ever seems to ask this about cars?
C'mon collectors .....share your secrets..

[Indiana_Jones]

I'd imagine it'd have something to do with the value, if it's anything like classic firearms....

-Indy

[T.W.R]

Matching numbers means the bike hasn't been botched from donor bikes eg: existing frame with a motor transplanted from another bike.
Old triumphs are a classic example with maybe a 1970 bonnie rolling chassis with a 73 engine etc
Classics = the more original it is the more desirable it is and thus more valuable

[vifferman]

Why is one of the most asked questions on TM " does it have matching numbers?"

Anoraks.

They buy a bike with Matching Numbers, then have a wee gloat, take out their matching numbers from time to time to cherish and polish them, then sit in a corner polishing their knobs and congratulating themselves on their superior numerical aptitude.

'S all about satisfaction innit? Be easier to just have a wank without buying Matching Numbers, but there you go (and wherever you go, There You Are). Takes all types to make a world. But we could do without agents, paedophiles, career politicians, bent cops, aresholes, and those people who look at you at intersections then go anyway.

[Max Headroom]

Matching numbers doesn't make any difference to how a bike runs, but it helps to verify what you're actually buying/selling. Because of model variations, some bitzas and hybrids can present a real headache when ordering parts. Also, it may be that a particular bitza may have problem-prone components which you would otherwise have avoided had the significance of the non-matching numbers been apparent.

It also makes it easier from a compliance perspective if you're returning an unregistered bike to the road, because its identity and model description can be verified easily.

Whether matching numbers make a bike more appealing to a collector hinges equally on how original a bike is. Few of us here would be true collectors, and little of this discussion would have any real impact on our choice of bikes, but if any of us were in the market for a roundcase 750SS or Velo Thruxton, you can be sure that the engine and frame numbers would become important. Likewise for any other big-ticket bike with low production numbers of which the unscrupulous are able to build authentic copies to fool the unwary.

For me, the main attraction of matching numbers is probably potential future values.

[James Deuce]

For me, the main attraction of matching numbers is not having the cops rock up and impound my stolen goods while throwing the book at me for receiving.

[vifferman]

For me, the main attraction of matching numbers is not having the cops rock up and impound my stolen goods while throwing the book at me for receiving.

I'm not sure that cops "rock up" - it's more sort of 'looming', in a predatorial sort of fashion. Most disconcerting, no. Yes.

[Voltaire]

Good answers!
I would not concider myself an anorak as I have not even washed my Ducati after a month of use....but

A matching numbers bike would tend to suggest its not a bastard, and despite always buying 'keepers' resale has to be taken in to account.

Ducati bevels don't have matching numbers so can lend themselves to being copied. A passable SS can be built out of a 860GT as can an R90/s out of an R90....its often in the detail.

Fortunately for BMW the numbers tell all...unlike Ducati where there is no definitive list.
I have read of two Velocettes with the same numbers.....came back from the pub after dinner and forgot where he was number punching....?

[Max Headroom]

A matching numbers bike would tend to suggest its not a bastard, and despite always buying 'keepers' resale has to be taken in to account.

Yep, the matching numbers don't completely eliminate surprises, but it gives a baseline from where one can at least establish what's correct/original/authentic and what isn't.

Even if we have no intention of selling a long-term keeper, we can't take it with us when we shuffle off this mortal coil. Matching numbers can make it easier for our family when disposing of our remaining earthly treasures, and also make it easier for the next guy . . . . .

[KiwiGs]

My guess is that most of the bikes that people are asking for matching numbers for are low production/rare models or Euro/Brit bikes
That being the case they assume that they are assembled by hand, and stamped as a matching pair. So if the bike has matching numbers they think that means the bike is in unmolested/original condition.
Big production bikes/cars have a range of frame and engine numbers for each model/year.
People do ask for matching numbers for cars, it is just that in general those low production/rare cars don’t tend to be sold on TM as often, cost $$$$ and get snapped up real quick.
Or maybe the people who are asking for matching numbers don’t really know what they are asking and have just heard of matching numbers.

[White trash]

No one ever seems to ask this about cars?
C'mon collectors .....share your secrets..

Really? If you were trying to sell (for example) an XY GTHO, do you reckon it's worth more as it left the factory, original 351 and running gear or with a late model FPV OHC motor?

Original and looked after is always more valuable than fucked with.

[PeteJ]

In my group of various original original machines, only the OSSAs had exact matching engine and frame numbers from new. My 1950s-1970s non-matchers include Enfield, Honda, and Yamaha.

My point is that, in contrast, I have seen several machines whose NZ restoration included re-doing numbers so that they matched.

[T.W.R]

Digressing slightly but imagine this scenario:

Brass Monkey Rally 1993......being so cold that unable to sleep so get up & spend the night by the bonfire, start conversation with bloke standing next to you.....turns out both of you have same bikes so start comparing notes
come day break go check over said bikes and there's one number difference between the two.
It happened...... we both had Yamaha XS850s his was 4HO-000230 and my one was 4HO-000231
Not bad for having a random chat with a stranger in the middle of the night at a rally

[Pedrostt500]

There are bikes that are built for very limited Nos, Maybe for example a John Player special Norton, If you wanted to know that you had an actual original, rather than a Copy, you may want to check the Nos match.

[Dodgyiti]

It's an anorak thing. If you want to ride your classic bike it's more important that it actually gets you home again, if you want to polish it and wank on to other anoraks then it better have matching numbers, even if you have to stamp them on yourself
Guzzi are chronic for out of sequence numbers on both engines and frames, and very Italian in their record keeping.

Matching engine and frame whoop-de-doo now where is my duster and Autosol...