Countersteering advice...

[Mystic13]

Got some question to ask if thats ok did not want start a new thread so posted in here.

So say I come to a left hand corner doing say 50km I push my left hand bar forward the bikes goes into the left turn with a nice lean on but all of a sudden half way through the corner I relies that i am coming close the inside of the corner and I need to adjust and go wider what do you do?.

I thought about pushing the bar left but I am guessing that wont steer me wider but instead counter steer me even closer to the edge so if I push my right hand bar forward would that just high side the bike?

Sorry if it sounds stupid but I am just going through alot of this stuff in my head before I get out on the road.

- Yep pushing the left bar will pull you in more.
- Pushing the right a little will move the bike out a fraction.

If you've got counter steering sussed then practise changing lines through a corner. Pick out marks in your line and ride inside or outside of them. You'll be surprised how much you can steer a bike through the corner.

Otherwise you can also wind the throttle on and that will pull you out from the corner.

Weighting the outside peg does stabilise the bike and make it feel better. I wouldn't use weighting pegs to steer the bike though its far slower than steering with the front when leaned over.

[Mystic13]

I need to find myself another road as well, the coast road is great and all but I do need to have a run somewhere that I'll have to deal with the unknown again, that's probably the most important skill I'll ever have to learn!

I was down in Wellington a year ago working for a few weeks and stayed at the top end of Cuba Street. My routine was to ride the south coast road, heading in past the sculptures and container house etc, then the South Coast Road get a coffee at Lyall Bay, ride the South Coast road and back into town to work maybe a km from where I stayed.

I was surprised that road was so empty. Just the best damned way to start the day though.

[magicmonkey]

I was down in Wellington a year ago working for a few weeks and stayed at the top end of Cuba Street. My routine was to ride the south coast road, heading in past the sculptures and container house etc, then the South Coast Road get a coffee at Lyall Bay, ride the South Coast road and back into town to work maybe a km from where I stayed.

I was surprised that road was so empty. Just the best damned way to start the day though.

Yup, that's the road I'm using at the moment, had an awesome ride this morning as there was very little wind for the first time, just a shame about the ice though (and the bloody cyclists who think they are allowed to use the entire lane, wankers!)

[Mystic13]

Yep, I know about the cyclists. I live next to Cornwall Park / One Tree Hill. I came up behind a bunch of cyclists that were holding up cars and me. They rode so they covered both sides of the road.

When a car came towards them they moved over and then immediately move out again leaving a bunch of incredibly pissed off motorists and one rider behind them. That's just sheer rudeness. Having said that I think they also get cars that pass right next to them. 2 wrongs don't make a right though.

Now if they had rego's I'd put a call through to police.

[magicmonkey]

Well, things are really starting to come together My goal in starting out with this whole countersteering malarkey was to make it second nature which seems to have happened. I was coming around a blind corner this morning and spotted a patch of dangerous looking gravel smack bang in the middle of the line I'd chosen, I didn't have time to think about how to get around it so the reactions kicked in and I countersteered myself over a bit further and made my way around it. Not exactly a masterclass in countersteering by any stretch of the imagination but it does mean that I've succeeded in making countersteering second nature, if I hadn't spent the time making it second nature there is no way I would have avoided the gravel, I probably would have managed to stay upright but it definitely wouldn't have been an enjoyable experience

So, I've a lot to learn yet, the throttle control needs a lot of work, weighting the outside peg only happens when I'm thinking about it, my comfort zone needs to expand a bit as it's so far within the bikes limits as to be a joke; but, I've got the very basic foundations sorted and considering I've not been riding very long I'm pretty happy with that

You guys on here have been brilliant, sensible advice and some piss taking, exactly what the modern day noob needs

[MSTRS:Me]

Good to hear. The base skills are most important. Everything else follows on from that. You are well on your way now. I still say you should spent a bit of time with a mentor (or any experienced rider that you can trust). You will be surprised at how much you can learn, when you aren't 'playing' about on your own.

[discotex]

Well, things are really starting to come together
...
You guys on here have been brilliant, sensible advice and some piss taking, exactly what the modern day noob needs

Good to hear it's all coming along! Congrats on using the skills.

Good to hear. The base skills are most important. Everything else follows on from that. You are well on your way now. I still say you should spent a bit of time with a mentor (or any experienced rider that you can trust). You will be surprised at how much you can learn, when you aren't 'playing' about on your own.

I agree but...

Some people do learn best on their own and have the level of objective (self) critisism required (both to work out what is crap advice and what is and isn't working).

If magicmonkey is like me they'll be able to read advice here and translate the words into action no worries.

From what they've said that sounds like that might be the case. Of course this kinda of person can fall into the trap of over-analysing things and missing the forest for the trees. Sometimes another perspective makes all the difference.

[magicmonkey]

I thought I'd resurrect this thread rather than start another one on what is pretty much the same subject...

I've noticed that my left arm seems to be constantly fighting against me when I'm countersteering, there still seems to be some part of my brain that just doesn't like the idea of turning the 'wrong' way around those corners. So, I decided last night that my left arm would just rest on the grip and have no input what-so-ever. It kind of worked, the left arm would try and get itself involved again without my conscious input but I stopped any input when I noticed it (generally after a gear change, it just seems to want to stay holding the bar...) so the ride was reasonably successful.

The ride was pretty eventful as well, found some idiot reversing out of a space without looking while I was leaned over in a corner, he wound up right in my path and blocked any escape route on my side of the road while stopping me from seeing if there was anything coming (damned SUV drivers!) so, got the thing upright and slammed on the front brakes, came to a stop about half a meter away from the fool and already had it in first to hit the gas and go round him (by this time I could pass him on the left, he was backing out pretty fast for someone who hadn't bothered looking!) I pottered off with an extended blast on the horn, a chest full of thumping and a single thought in my brain; "thank fuck I spent all that time practicing emergency braking in corners!". A bit of time putting the work in seems to have saved my skin here, I'm a cautious learner and now I know why

I saw another biker on the way home, he was pushing his SYM-Wolf 150 up the road so I stopped off and offered some help, it was a clutch problem though and nothing that could be fixed on the side of the road with my little GN toolkit, still, had a nice chat about bikes and the bike shops around Wellington and departed...

As I was coming to park up, which needs full right lock and feathering the clutch in second, I managed to nearly drop the bike, that was bloody scary! I had the thing over at a 45 degree angle, just managing to hold on to it and somehow managed to pull it back up, god knows how as I would have thought that weight would have been beyond me, but I managed it. Made me realise I need to be a bit more careful with the slow speed stuff, maybe hit up a bit more car park practice, joy

[vifferman]

Good work, Mr Monkey!

As I was coming to park up, which needs full right lock and feathering the clutch in second, I managed to nearly drop the bike, that was bloody scary! I had the thing over at a 45 degree angle, just managing to hold on to it and somehow managed to pull it back up, god knows how as I would have thought that weight would have been beyond me, but I managed it.

Didja have your foot down?

[magicmonkey]

Good work, Mr Monkey!

Didja have your foot down?

not when it started falling but it went down pretty quick once I realised I wasn't going to hold the bike up without it!

[vifferman]

not when it started falling but it went down pretty quick once I realised I wasn't going to hold the bike up without it!

It doesn't mean you're gonna look like a noob if you stick the inside leg out ready to catch the bike; it's easier if it's already out than trapped underneath if you're caught out.
Heck - I saw an "exerienced" biker on a Triumph Rocket III paddling his bike along to park it. (He did look like a noob. Or perhaps like he was riding someone else's bike...)

However, apart from sticking a foot out, motocross style, when doing slow-speed turns on dodgy surfaces, it's generally better to keep your feet on the pegs as it gives you more control over the bike's balance and attitude.

[magicmonkey]

It doesn't mean you're gonna look like a noob if you stick the inside leg out ready to catch the bike; it's easier if it's already out than trapped underneath if you're caught out.
Heck - I saw an "exerienced" biker on a Triumph Rocket III paddling his bike along to park it. (He did look like a noob. Or perhaps like he was riding someone else's bike...)

However, apart from sticking a foot out, motocross style, when doing slow-speed turns on dodgy surfaces, it's generally better to keep your feet on the pegs as it gives you more control over the bike's balance and attitude.

Well, I'm not too fussed about looking like a noob, I ride around brandishing my L plates at unsuspecting drivers, it's even at a jaunty angle so it's more likely to get noticed!

I always though the general rule was that you put your feet up as soon as you got moving and kept it there until you stopped. Looks like I'm learning new things every day still!

The surface there is a real pain in the arse, over a gutter channel with a huge gap and then onto a really gravelly uneven tarmac which has to be done at a reasonable speed as there are always people behind you on that hill and it's just round a corner which is hard to see around...

[R-Soul]

Well, things are really starting to come together My goal in starting out with this whole countersteering malarkey was to make it second nature which seems to have happened. I was coming around a blind corner this morning and spotted a patch of dangerous looking gravel smack bang in the middle of the line I'd chosen, I didn't have time to think about how to get around it so the reactions kicked in and I countersteered myself over a bit further and made my way around it. Not exactly a masterclass in countersteering by any stretch of the imagination but it does mean that I've succeeded in making countersteering second nature, if I hadn't spent the time making it second nature there is no way I would have avoided the gravel, I probably would have managed to stay upright but it definitely wouldn't have been an enjoyable experience

So, I've a lot to learn yet, the throttle control needs a lot of work, weighting the outside peg only happens when I'm thinking about it, my comfort zone needs to expand a bit as it's so far within the bikes limits as to be a joke; but, I've got the very basic foundations sorted and considering I've not been riding very long I'm pretty happy with that

You guys on here have been brilliant, sensible advice and some piss taking, exactly what the modern day noob needs

In the book "Total control" which discusses street riding techniques, teh author syas that the best way of countersteering is pushing with inside hand, and completely relaxing outside hand. This makes for very quick turning though, so don't go off on the inside.

Also, start turning as late as you can into a corner, so that you can see the most of teh corner that you can before you go into it. Also, turn quicker to start with, and smooth out the rest. this is because turning quickly while you are vertical is more handleable than adjusting quickly when you are over to the side and your suspension is not working as well.

Also look as far into the corner as you can. And get your body's centreline inside of the bike's centreline.

There, now you dont have to buy the book....

[Maki]

In the book "Total control" which discusses street riding techniques, teh author syas that the best way of countersteering is pushing with inside hand, and completely relaxing outside hand. This makes for very quick turning though, so don't go off on the inside.

Also, start turning as late as you can into a corner, so that you can see the most of teh corner that you can before you go into it. Also, turn quicker to start with, and smooth out the rest. this is because turning quickly while you are vertical is more handleable than adjusting quickly when you are over to the side and your suspension is not working as well.

Also look as far into the corner as you can. And get your body's centreline inside of the bike's centreline.

There, now you dont have to buy the book....

That's good advice. You always want to remember to use the bars for their intended purpose, to control the bike. Not to steady your body. You learn this quickly in windy Wellington.

[R-Soul]

That's good advice. You always want to remember to use the bars for their intended purpose, to control the bike. Not to steady your body. You learn this quickly in windy Wellington.

Yup that was the gist of it - you use your legs and back to hold your bodyweight, not your arms, since it tenses them up and makes control a lot more difficult.