ACC Levies. BRONZ meeting

[paulj]

What pisses me is the booze factor - reputed to be a major contributor to accidents across the board - how about an ACC levy there.

I think we're shafted - would be nice to purchase a rego on a weekly basis as a sop to the shafting. Much like we purchase road user tax for diesels. Off touring the SI for a couple of weeks? Purchase 2x weeks rego.

Won't be acceptable tho - far too large a reduction in overall $take.

On on ...

[discotex]

What pisses me is the booze factor - reputed to be a major contributor to accidents across the board - how about an ACC levy there.

No offence intended but that's exactly the same faulty thought process that ACC are using to target bikes....

What about the responsible people (the majority) that drink and DON'T drive. Why should they pay a levy on alcohol to pay for the injuries cause by those that break the law?

At best you could exclude injuries caused to yourself through drink driving.

[yungatart]

From one of the other threads...

Whilst I am still outraged at this shafting, I wouln't be quite so angry if a some of my levy dollars were going to fund decent rider education/skills courses.
Perhaps if ACC were to fund these courses (out of the levy collected), and then those who attend get a rebate on their levy...food for thought?
A yearly refresher course at the beginning of spring.....

[ldcroberts]

Fairest would be if they analyzed stats for crashes and accident costs, apportioned blame for cause of accident, and charged levies based on that. If it shows that e.g. cagers cause more damage to bikers, levy them so they start improving (external air bags, i dunno, but let the responsibility fall where it lies)

[Usarka]

Fairest would be if they analyzed stats for crashes and accident costs, apportioned blame for cause of accident, and charged levies based on that. If it shows that e.g. cagers cause more damage to bikers, levy them so they start improving (external air bags, i dunno, but let the responsibility fall where it lies)

It's been done:

Most bike crashes (total) are bikers fault.

Most bike vs car crashes are car drivers fault.

[silverbak]

So far this is a nice discussion people, but wheres the action?
WHAT are we going to do about this and WHEN.

I vote for an immediate ride on Parliament this weekend.

Promoting:
- Open dialogue on banding of levies (cc groupings is a crock and bears no resemblence to the power of the bike)
- Recognising there are holes in the laws (age restrictions, no training for scooters, car licence holders can ride etc..)
- Safe riding, motorcycle community who recognise there needs change but we need proper a communication channel and negotiation time.

At the end of the day this is trying to fix a hole created from years of poor management from ACC and government. Motorcyclists are a soft target because there are (unrealistic) statistics to prove it. A motorcycle involved in an accident is a stat no matter whose fault it is. We all knew this was going to happen with the boom over the last couple of years in scooters and motorbikes. It is up to us to set the record straight and negotiate how this should operate.

In my 25 years of riding (the last 10 years in NZ) this is by far the biggest kick in the gut I have come across against my freedom to ride my bikes.

In England and Europe, riders band together and take action, we need to do the same.

Andy

[Usarka]

If the changes don't go through beware the alternatives offered by the govt. I smell a softening up in progress.....

[motorcyclesonline.net]

Regarding the off-road stuff - they could start by registering all new ones as sold by dealers
They all have 17 digit frame / vin numbers, even the Chinese ones

I traded a late model KX250F which I had no way of checking its history

Turned out it was stolen & I had to hand back to original owner $3500 lost with no recourse against the bloody thief - who we were able to track down

If bike had been registered, a car jam report would have shown it as being stolen

Bill

Firstly, a $500 ACC levy on a gsxr600 yet $750 for a vfr800 or SV650 demonstrates a serious misunderstanding on the part of the MPs behind this.

Secondly, these fees would price many off riding, and require some serious thought/saving for those who still make a saving vs. parking a car. The current fine for not having a rego is $200. A lot of people will take their chances.

Thirdly, this will do serious harm to the industry and cost a lot of jobs - can we put a price on this?




DIRTbikes: the only time I pay any acc on my dirtbike is when i get a MNZ day licence, which I've never needed to get, even to race in some instances. Farm quads cripple a lot of men but again no real rego. My understanding is this goes on road biker's tab.
How enforceable a rego on farm bikes is, however, questionable.

[motorcyclesonline.net]

This is what they are proposing in Queensland plus zero alcohol for motorcyclists

Many new and existing bikers have limited gear beyond a cheap helmet, gloves, and maybe a jacket with or without armour.

That additional $250-$500 drain from bikers' wallets will only worsen the situation, raising the rider's acc claim if the unfortunate were to happen.

Heck, maybe we could re-open the debate on mandatory approved gloves/jacket? Personally I wouldn't like to see that as it'd be driving a wedge to include boots and pants, but it's still better than what they're suggesting.... (personally I like to commute in jeans for the summer lest my person overheat in slow traffic)



The worst part of all this for me? If I can't afford to ride around NZ on my holidays nor can I even commute in the only manner I've found acceptable in Auckland, upon graduating I'll be using a bit of that leftover student loan money to buy me a one way ticket overseas and receive a higher salary too....

[motorcyclesonline.net]

What about lower levies for all riders who have attended & been signed off as being competent at rider training - like that which will be operating at Hampton Downs?
All vehicles should have 3rd party insurance as in Aus, USA & UK with a proportion going to ACC

Since I'm in the Czech republic for the next couple of years I won't be there - but I will be coming back sometime and I do not want to be paying some stupidly large fee - if you're looking for some suggestions then....

why not suggest a slightly changed approach to the levy so that maybe those who can prove they have protective gear can apply for a discount or refund based on supporting reciepts - the statistics obviously support the fact that if you are ATGATT then you are less likely to be so seriously injured - therefore less likely to cost- the other obvious benefit is it's a great incentive to have everone wearing safety gear of some sort which I'm sure would be an acc consideration?

Anyway thats all I can think of constructively off the cuff beyond what others are mentioning.

[mouldy]

Well I won't be going to Queensland then . I think a petition needs to be drafted and circulated and a mass ride to Wellington but I guess thats what the BRONZ meetings for . All arguments and points in this thread are valid but we have to get the public and pollies to agree with us .

[GerryAttrick]

I'll add my name to stop this Crock of $hit the Gummint is planning. Its time we got a bit more proactive and make them see that NZers are not going to keep taking the rubbish they hand out (and thats not just bikers).

There are plenty of ideas already - some more emotive than others.

A couple of thoughts of mine.
1. Why not add all vehicle related costs relating to ACC to fuel. That way everyone pays part of the cost. The more miles you cover the more fuel you use and the more likely you are to be involved in (not cause) an accident.
2.It also means that if you have more than one car/bike then you only pay the costs WHEN YOU ARE USING THEM. You don't pay to have a bike sitting in the shed that you use for weekend rides as well as one for commuting during the week.
3. If there is a "penalty factor" then add it to the licence cost not the vehicle and give a rebate for clean records.
4. Start collecting ACC costs from some of the other claimants sports. If personal ACC covers sport and/or cycle injuries or they are trying to get some of that back from the total tax payer base then take them out of the mix and make sports clubs & cyclists pay themselves- that would be a good one for "Treadly Smith" - wonder how many accidents on the Heaphy Track will be laid at the cyclists door. Maybe $100 charge to cycle the Heaphy Track would be a good start?? Might also have to start registering cycles and then they can pay for the costs of any accidents around Tamaki Drive they are involved in....don't worry about who is at fault - just make the cyclists pay as its their fault for wearing lycra and not leather.
5. In the event of an multi vehicle accident resulting in an ACC claim lets see ACC recover some of the treatment costs from the person who caused the accident. They can cover single vehicle accidents as they do now except maybe the amount of cover should be adjusted to reflect the circumstances. i.e if you slide off the road (car or bike) in the rain you get full cover, if you hit a power pole and you are pi$$ed then you get a significantly lower level of cover
5. We need to make sure any protest causes as much publicity (that means disruption usually) as possible. It needs to be during the week and during rush hour. A nice jaunt from Drury to Albany at 40kph or less on a Monday about 7am would be a good start and maybe a similar trip the other way at another time would also make someone wonder what was going on.

Just my 2cents worth to the mix

[motorcyclesonline.net]

I agree completely

Rick Barker, the MP for one of the seats over in Hawke Bay rides a Rocket 3

Could be a good starting point

Bill

The only way we can fight the levy increases is by factual argument supported by simple statistics. This presents a face to the non biker of a responsible body of people but we have to get the interest of the public first. I have been involved with bikers rights in Europe for many years, please dont just say 'another another know all immigrant' I am a biker who wants to see his kids and grand kids enjoy my sport. The two pronged approach does work, a big demo catches the news, people love to see 100's of bikes and it starts them thinking that the way we are depicted by the press is not true.We then need to get in discussions with the politicians, find MP's who are bikers and build a relationship within all the political parties. This is not done overnight but if we are to change this agenda which I believe is aimed at getting bikes off the roads not just of NZ but across the world it is the long haul.
The big problem I see is that we need a strong and proactive biker rights organization. I have tried 3 times to join BRONZ even sent off my 20 bucks
but after many weeks wait for my application form which was sent off I have heard nothing. If the bikers leadership exhibits so much apathy god help us - in 10 years time the only bikes sold in NZ will be for riding on the beach or along a muddy beach.

RIDE SAFE

[C&A]

Just a thought feel really sorry for the guys that own more than one bike, there was a guy on TV last night that owned 4 so thats $2000 extra a year for him and he only rides one at a time ...so if he had an accident it would only be on one of them so why is he paying 4x the accident cover ?????


If they have to do something just license the driver not the machine

[naphazoline]

..........3. Personally, I'm receptive to direct action.....

It must have been said somewhere already,but if everyone says :We wont pay", what the fuck are the authorities going do?

Fine us? We wont pay that either!
It's not like they can send everyone to prison.




[/QUOTE]4. What IS required is reasons WHY we shouldn't pay what ACC *claim* we cost......[/QUOTE]


It's extortion.

If people stick to refusing,it could count on future proposals.

If not,where's this going to take us next?





[/QUOTE]...... Politics is the art of the possible........ .[/QUOTE]


Shouldn't that be,"The art of BULLSHIT in the name of robbing people blind". ?