How about we take a deep breath...

[Katman]

I think it's time that every responsible motorcyclist speaks out about the idiocy that infests the likes of the Coro Loop and the Akaroa GP.

Until we do so loudly and publicly, we're seen as a whole to be tacitly supporting such antics.

[tri boy]

Motorcycling is more a pass time like boating, horse riding, kayacking. Find a good PR team to throw the pitch that all passtimes that have injurious claims with ACC should be targeted.
I still don't understand the difference between breaking your back on a motorcycle as opposed to falling from a horse, scrum injury, diving from the high board.
It's just easier because of a rego plate to collect the funds.
Register boats, horses, guns, kayaks-the general public will revolt, and the govt backdown.

[AD345]

*snip*

So what's a creative solution that ticks all the right political boxes but doesn't see motorcyclists forced off the roads? Protest rides? I think not.

Stop trying to fund the entire future claims liability in 4 years would be a good start.

Making incremental adjustments to the range of ACC levies to cover the gap in 10 (or more) years based on 3 yearly reviews of all incomes (including investment returns) would be another helpful action. This stops knee-jerk actions like this and allows for reduced impositions on the stakeholders in the event of improved returns (in other words - without a mechanism like this, there's nothing to stop the govt. holding onto the cash even when they no longer "need" it)

A less palatable option would be to introduce a similar system to diesel Road User Charges. This would at least have the benefit of reducing the impact on those who own more than 1 bike. I shudder to think of the 'administration overheads" the bureaucrats could think up though.

That took 10 minutes to think up.

[sinfull]

Turning back the tide on this one will take sophistication and cunning. It's not just Wellington-based policy analysts who will require convincing (indeed they are already a lost cause). It's the hearts and minds of the general public of New Zealand who will need to be won over by the reasonableness of the motorcyclists' cause.

Well constructed argument and slick PR is needed, not a bunch of rowdy oiks on bikes riding round in large groups intimidating little old ladies in in Honda Jazzs and scaring babies in strollers.

If the motorcycle levy isn't to increase, motorcyclists will need to be offering an alternative to fill the funding gap at ACC.

Politicians have a problem: ACC costs a lot to run and they have to find ways of funding it. They're not going to dismantle or privatise ACC. That is a given. They will be reluctant to further increase the excise component of the levy derived from pump sales of motor spirits because that is inflationary. In the current economic climate where people's wage packets aren't increasing, they will be very reluctant to increase the wages and salaries levy.

So what's a creative solution that ticks all the right political boxes but doesn't see motorcyclists forced off the roads? Protest rides? I think not.

Your making the prospect of my trying my new slingshot out seem pretty sad here Hitch !!!


I like the figures that Ixion just brought out in an earlier post !!! A publicity campaign could work for us if we could obtain some proof that they are exagerating the figures !!!

[JohnR]

I'm still looking for cogent arguments about why we shouldn't have to pay what ACC claim we cost .

Protests work a lot better if we can offer some valid reasons why the increases are unfair or unjustified.

Not seen any so far.

My job requires me to fill out many ACC forms. ACC forms ask for details of "accidents". However they do not specifically require details of the type of vehicle involved. The only way that this information can be gathered is by analyzing the summary, usually written by the "victim" or friend/family. If the word motorcycle/bike appears then the analyst probably looks no further and selects "Motorcycle Crash". However there are, further down the form a box for "Sport", e.g. motorcross, there is also a very small tick box for 'Did this involve a moving vehicle on a road, driveway or beach' or similar.

I suspect that many off road/farm bike injuries are recorded as motorcycle crashes because the information is not specific enough.

[Fluffy Cat]

From memory in the uk early 1990s it was 60% to 40% thats 60% car drivers at fault in recorded accidents. Think its similar here but this hehe is a no fault system. Its us that are getting injured (not our fault).
Sounds like we are buggered....
Mahnn this sucks.

[Genestho]

Official Information Act 1982 No 156 (as at 01 July 2009), Public Act



12 Requests(1) Any person, being—

(a) a New Zealand citizen; or

(b) a permanent resident of New Zealand; or

(c) a person who is in New Zealand; or

(d) a body corporate which is incorporated in New Zealand; or

(e) a body corporate which is incorporated outside New Zealand but which has a place of business in New Zealand,—

may request a department or Minister of the Crown or organisation to make available to him or it any specified official information.

(1A) Notwithstanding subsection (1), a request made, on or after the date of commencement of this subsection, by or on behalf of a natural person for access to any personal information which is about that person shall be deemed to be a request made pursuant to subclause (1)(b) of principle 6 of the Privacy Act 1993, and shall be dealt with accordingly, and nothing in this Part or in Part 5 shall apply in relation to any such request.

(2) The official information requested shall be specified with due particularity in the request.

(3) If the person making the request asks that his request be treated as urgent, he shall give his reasons for seeking the information urgently.

I wonder if we (or BRONZ) can use this to gain the figures? I recon first you have to break it down so you can see what ya dealing with.

[blackstars_10]

Find a good PR team to throw the pitch that all passtimes that have injurious claims with ACC should be targeted.

Unfortunately, I don't think that this approach will ever work. The nature of motorcyclists is that they are easy targets-
-association with gangs (rightly or wrongly)
-riders who think the street is a track
-cost of accidents
-general bad riding
-and the perception that they are only a passtime

If they weren't seen as a just a passtime or luxury item but rather a necessity, I can't help but feel that this would not have happened. Indeed, for many of us they are our means of transport. Part of the issue is that they are not legitimised as a means of everyday transport that gets people to work etc. This means that by targeting motorcycles, the government doesn't anticipate to see any negative economic repercussions, effects that would be seen if the same increase happened to cars.

As such, I don't ever see us 'convincing' the government to reexamine ACC by arguing its case. In reality, the figure they are concerned with is the cost of the motorycle related accidents.

That is where social action of some sort needs to come in

[slimjim]

I think it's time that every responsible motorcyclist speaks out about the idiocy that infests the likes of the Coro Loop and the Akaroa GP.

well that will help...
and Bronz.. yea right thought you were ex one of them ..
wonder what the hog club,ulysses club,rat club,and hell yes even the 1% are going to do ,cause it affects them ..

[Hitcher]

Come on guys. This no time bitch and moan about old grievances. Despite what we may think about various motorcyclist organisations, we're all in this together.

We need to find creative solutions that stand a good chance of being favorably considered by our elected leaders. I don't care who it is who comes up with the good ideas, I just want to hear good ideas.

[cs363]

As much as it will (no doubt) upset some on here, Katman is right that a small minority have certainly damaged the reputation and public perception of motorcycling. Whether it is motorcycle gangs or those that think they are MotoGP riders or stunters on the road (there's a time and a place for everything, but unfortunately most of these tossers like to masturbate with an audience, appreciative or not...).
In today's increasingly PC and safety conscious world, the smart motorcyclist who wants to blow the cobwebs out will pick his road and occasion carefully and still be considerate of other road users - yes, it can be done with just a little (not so) common sense.
Though arguing among ourselves right now isn't going to help the immediate problem given that there is only a relatively short time to make submissions. (by November 10th)
Apparently the actual changes whatever form they take won't be decided until around February next year and will be enacted around July.

But, back to the matter in hand - unless someone can suggest another body that is capable of organising a concerted national protest (I certainly don't know of one) then BRONZ is our best hope. This will certainly be a defining moment in history for them I feel.
I could be wrong, but I don't think most motorcyclists would be able to come up with a strong argument against a rise in the ACC levy given all the arguments for it - the real issue for most, reading between the lines, is that it should be a fair rise rather than the short sighted blanket approach suggested in the proposal. Even worse is the grossly unfair penalty owners of several bikes face (and many of us are in that boat), why should we pay multiple levies for vehicles that we are incapable of using simultaneously?
Someone suggested that the levies be somehow linked to your licence, for instance if you have a car and bike licence you pay two appropriate levies and so on, food for thought?
I still think the best thing we can all do right now is make a submission, email your MP cc'ing Nick Smith & John key and join BRONZ (even if it's only for this year) and present a united front.

[Pussy]

And we need to make sure that we DON'T come across like some rabid crowd from the French Revolution

[mansell]

I still think the best thing we can all do right now is make a submission, email your MP cc'ing Nick Smith & John key and join BRONZ (even if it's only for this year) and present a united front.[/QUOTE]

Let us know how and I believe the majority of people who subscribe to this site would make a submission. Maybe if we all scream loud enough and long enough the government might hear us

[Hitcher]

Unless everybody on this site who plans to make a submission makes a DIFFERENT submission, they will be largely ineffective.

Submission processes are about gathering ideas, particularly ideas or considerations/impacts that the developers of the proposal may not have thought of. Submissions are not a numbers game. 3,000 submissions that all say the same thing will be treated as one submission.

[Genestho]

Unless everybody on this site who plans to make a submission makes a DIFFERENT submission, they will be largely ineffective.

Submission processes are about gathering ideas, particularly ideas or considerations/impacts that the developers of the proposal may not have thought of. Submissions are not a numbers game. 3,000 submissions that all say the same thing will be treated as one submission.

Wonder if there should be a sticky addressing that? I'm seeing alot of copy this and send carryon?

No good. You must use your own words, and read the proposals (at LEAST) before you write your submission, if you have a rebuttal, back it with a fact (if you can).