ACC campaign, are we barking up the wrong tree?

[rok-the-boat]

I see everyone's all up in arms about this, and I can see why. Massive increases are hard to swallow, it hurts. But it's really simple maths. (Fuck this is going to make me unpopular)

ACC is running at a HUGE deficite. Massive. Something has to be done, a number of changes have been suggested by the government.

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users. And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

Why? I saw some stats somewhere - from the USA - that showed most motorcycle accidents are caused by cars. If cars cause the accidents, they should be paying, not motorcycles. Also, more people need to be persuaded to get on bikes - they are cheaper, more efficient etc. Also, my bike is insured, therefore, I should pay less of a fee anyway. Finally, the reason ACC are in deep dodahs is because of their own mismanagement - they need to sort themselves out and become more efficient. Stop putting ads in newspapers and printing lavish brochures - we need none of that.

[Katman]

I saw some stats somewhere - from the USA - that showed most motorcycle accidents are caused by cars.

That is a myth perpetuated by motorcyclists in an attempt to disguise the stink emanating from their shit.

[gizmo]

Off-road bikes, Motor-cross bikes, farm bikes and the like are all classed as motorcycles. When a rider of one of the bikes has an accident, then it is classed as a motorcycle accident.
As these bike do not require registration they do not pay ACC. The only way that the government can get money back for "motorcyle" accidents is to up the ACC levies on Registration of road bikes.

WHERE IS THIS FAIR.

The only real solution that I have is that we re-new our licences yearly and ACC is payed on your licence.
This would bring in more income as there would be more people as those without a car or bike would still pay ACC as they do drive.
Also people with a bad driving record, accident etc would pay more for there levies. Thususer pays.

National had better sort it out other wise

[mossy1200]

I see everyone's all up in arms about this, and I can see why. Massive increases are hard to swallow, it hurts. But it's really simple maths. (Fuck this is going to make me unpopular)

ACC is running at a HUGE deficite. Massive. Something has to be done, a number of changes have been suggested by the government.

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users. And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

I'm also beginning to think riders of race bikes and dirt bikes should have to pay a levy for each visit to the track or trail. This could potentially lower the road bikes rates at the same time.

I see where your coming from BUT

Im going to start a motorbike GANG and were going to be BAD ASSES and ASSESESS and we are going to get patches unless we are in Wanganui and then we will be secret squirrel like fight club.
Together in huge bad asses and assesess groups we will ride around unregistered.we will be so bad that honda riders will have to ride without helmets to prove they arnt ghey.

[cs363]

Off-road bikes, Motor-cross bikes, farm bikes and the like are all classed as motorcycles.

Umm, actually no they aren't (which surprised me!) see here:

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/stati...aims/IS0800367

That said though, I have no doubt that many ACC claims are incorrectly filed in the correct category. Interesting that they have an ATV category and a trail riding/motocross category but theres no mention of farm bikes (2 wheelers), wonder what they get classified as?
Also, wondering if the scooter category is motor scooters or those stupid things with the skateboard wheels that were all the rage a while back?

[Tink]

To me its a typical thing... the guy that stuffs up pays.. but also the guy that doesn't... and from some comments here... those that don't ride on the road... DON'T pay road tax... so the govt needs to categorize more than they do. I have a 4x4 $40k and a bike now.... never had a accident in 25 years thats been my fault or that I have required ACC... I have a 60% no claims on my insurance... and now I want to take on a hobbie I am required to pay more...

time for more employment of logistic management..... those that fail pay!!!

[liljegren]

Here's a laugh- go ride your non-registered, non-warranted bike into a tree at an illegal speed, and you are still covered by ACC! How does that work?

[StoneY]

I'll try.

And succeeded mate well written

Excellent points made Stranger , I totally agree.

Concur

No, that idea still penalises owners of more than one bike. The levy should be for the person, not the vehicle.

Exactly
Ive advocated for a individual based levy for a long time

[kwaka_crasher]

ACC is running at a HUGE deficite. Massive. Something has to be done, a number of changes have been suggested by the government.

I don't believe it is as bad as that - it's largely a projected deficit driven by Labours legislation change in 2007 to make ACC "fully funded" by 2014. Given projections of the past (the carbon credit bullshit where we went from a significant credit to a huge deficit) do you put much credence on this projection? In all likelyhood it'll be the same pricks doing it...

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users.

Yes. We're undercharged by $70 each according to them. So why the $529 increase?

And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

No. "Large" (700cc+) bike riders account for 32% of injuries and 50% of deaths. Source: Ministry of Transport - Motorcycle Crash Factsheet

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

Sure. It's claimed to be a no-fault insurance scheme. Seems like they're apportioning fault (they even mention 'culpability' in their justification) but only to (and within) one group - motorcyclists. Where are the extortionate levies for the Volvo driving pensioners with hats?

I'm also beginning to think riders of race bikes and dirt bikes should have to pay a levy for each visit to the track or trail. This could potentially lower the road bikes rates at the same time.

Abso-fucking-lutely. As should cyclists (levy their spandex), donkey drivers (levy their jodhpurs), rugby boofheads (levy their boots), home handyclown (levy their tools), joggers (levy their shoes), lawn bowlers (levy their blue rinse) etc etc. Someone's carrying all those fuckers. Probably motorcyclists.

[terbang]

One of my bikes hasn't seen a rego in 5 years, I just keep putting it on hold, though I get warrants. And I still ride it a lot, only picking up one ticket for no rego. That cost me $200, so not too bad for 5 years...

[DIN PELENDA]

Why? I saw some stats somewhere - from the USA - that showed most motorcycle accidents are caused by cars. .

That is a myth perpetuated by motorcyclists in an attempt to disguise the stink emanating from their shit.

Maybe not most, but I know lot of bikers my self included that got hit by cars. The only major accident I have got T bone by Chinese women driving mini-bus and talking on mike 7 years-ego and she fuck' my Ducati . Some of KB's: DMTD on roundabout he is still fuckt from it and his Ducati 1098 , GSXR Trace -Truck on motor-way decide to change line and didn't see her,TL1000R and his M109, DidJit - hit and run , Carver on bridge - maybe not ... or how abouth cop doing u turn, or that charity bike ride in South Island as car try to pass another car and have head on with over 20 bikes, killing 3 and injuring 19.

[Dafe]

I've made 6 ACC claims for Rugby.
I've made 3 ACC claims for Indoor Soccer
I've made 0 ACC claims for motorcycling.

The huge increase to motorcyclists will be aiding the massive number of non-ACC levied sporting claims that are made every year.
Someone has to pay for the sporting claims, Why not the motorcyclists!!!

I get your point White Trash, but the increases put on motorcycle riders is unjustified when you consider the proportionality of non ACC levied claims made.

[brendonjw]

What isn't fair is having to pay multiple levies for a number of vehicles that one might own. The levy should be applied to the person, not the vehicle.

I could probably live with paying $700 or $800 a year for medical cover for accidents if it was applied like that. I just don't see why owners of multiple vehicles should be penalised compared to single vehicle owners, when it is patently obvious that you cannot use all vehicles simultaneously.

Although i fully agree with this model it would be too easy to cheat the system, a family could have 3+ vehicles yet they could all be under 1 parents name so dad, mum and the kids could all be driving round at the same time yet only have to pay for one of them...

[White trash]

Yes. We're undercharged by $70 each according to them. So why the $529 increase?

Nope, got your wires crossed here mate, what is reportedly happening is that every car registration is currently subsidizing motorcyclists ACC claims by $70 each, that's quite different

I got to say, thanks for all the valid and reasoned argument put forward, restores my faith in KBers being more than a bunch of abusive arseholes graced with a keyboard.

For the record, I am as opposed to this ludicrous hike in rates as anyone else, it's just a nice change to see people actually having a range of different possible solutions rather than threads titled "Burn parliment" and "we need a good old fashioned lynching" that KB is so famous for.

[White trash]

That is a myth perpetuated by motorcyclists in an attempt to disguise the stink emanating from their shit.

Once again, I agree almost completely.

Every accident I've had on a bike was to some degree, my own fault. That includes the two big ones involving other vehicles. Had I not been speeding, or paid slightly more attention, I would have avoided the twits driving the cars without due care.