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Thread: Harley Davidson winds up Buell!

  1. #91
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    19th February 2008 - 22:08
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    2008 BUELL 1125R
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    This is a very sad day indeed,however
    BALZY RULES US

  2. #92
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    19th February 2008 - 22:08
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    I HAVE THE 08 1125R SIGNITURE LIMITED ADDITION AND I ABSOLUTLY LOVE IT...ERIC BUELL YOU ROCK
    IM JUST HAPPY IM LUCKY ENOUGH TO OWN ONE.
    BALZY RULES US

  3. #93
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    3rd January 2005 - 11:00
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    I rewrote some of it.

    As a Buell owner....

    A few people have asked me to comment on the Buell closure.

    If you open the approved hard cover biography of the Buell Motor Company '25 Years of Buell' by Court Canfield & Dave Gess at page 101 you'll see one of my pictures featuring Auckland Motorcycles & Power Sports Demo at Clarke's Beach, south of Auckland. Flip the page and 102 & 103 has a spread with two photos of me riding Buells and one of my own XB12X with Ruapehu in the background, plus a 600 word story on a factory ride, so I guess you could say I have some emotional attachment to the brand.

    I met Erik on the 1125R release and have supplied them with images, tested every model over the last few years and talked about the vehicles pretty regularly in print and online.

    If you haven't been following the second most discussed topic on Kiwi motorcyclist's agendas this week, the management at Harley-Davidson have announced that the Buell factory will not be re-opening after the previously reported two month Christmas closedown.

    Video of a visibly distraught EB discussing the closure, and megabytes of info are on KR or are googleable.

    One of my curmudgeonly pals enquired. ’Do you feel like you backed a loser with the demise of Buell?'

    No.

    I feel like we/he/they are a victim, not a loser.

    Some critics called Buell 'The red haired step child' and 'The mad scientist' referring to its periphery relative to core H-D operations.

    The set of circumstances that lead to this demise are sourced at the core.

    As my pal the Sarge said, 'Leverage is another word for debt'. The H-D finance arm was heavily leveraged and when the GFC house of cards collapsed they were in line for a bailout just like the Detroit car makers.

    If you talk to folks from Wisconsin (and a lot of other places) you hear that things aren’t very good.

    We seem to have had the fiscal policy in place in Aus and NZ so that the meltdown hasn’t been nearly as dramatic as some places in heartland USA. People are unemployed, hurting and in the H-D strategy announcement (on KR news site) revenues are down 80% and the excrement and the fan have collided.

    I’ve just tested the ’10 range and the products are the best they have ever been.

    The issue is sales that were made on the back of low deposit finance have evaporated and many have come back to haunt them. Their typical buyer is struggling for work or reluctant to tie up big bucks in (to what is to many) a recreational vehicle

    Buell accounted for 3% of Harley's sales. From what I glean on line there are about a dozen enthusiastic dealers in Continental USA. And that is all.

    Most of them are reported to be a far cry from what I am used to at AMPS - which has enthusiasts on staff, a range of vehicles that are very well suited to the twisty roads and NZ conditions, include a good range of colours and models and are placed immediately beside the front door.

    For a lot of American (and Australian) conditions Buells don't really suit the terrain. If I lived a few thousand K's due west I'd own a Road King.

    A fantastic handling sports machine isn't much use if all you have is superslab for 200 miles in either direction. So in many places the bikes are shoved to the back of the dealership and even (if you read online) criticised.

    Then I consider that my XB12X is 4 years old in a few weeks time. So far I have spent $5.95 customising it (I painted the windscreen). Some Buell owners bling them up - often with non-genuine H-D parts - and many just add a few farkles and are done.
    I'm quite happy and satisfied with mine bone stock.

    If you consider this against the average spend on accessorising a new HOG is around $6,000, most of which has an attractive dealer margin, and you can begin to understand why some dealers aren’t as keen. In many, the red haired step children get pushed even further to the back and the Fat Boys and Ultras get the spotlight and the razzamataz. The Buell inventory is for those that actively seek it out. And then they are likely to be steered to a Dyna. $ Bling!

    So when the parent company is bleeding from the inside and H-D say they are ‘rationalising the business’, they mean they want to concentrate on the most profitable parts. Buell isn't that, no matter how good the product gets, if the salesmen aren't buying it...

    Naturally I feel sorry for Erik and gutted for the enthusiasts that have lost their jobs, careers and families that will endure hardship.

    I'm also sad that a range of bikes that were good solutions for the local conditions won't be available.

    For their customers I read that there is a 10-year guarantee on parts availability.

    I’m guessing H-D won’t sell the Buell business because of the raft of IP & patents that are registered under the name. Many of which will find their way to H-D branded product eventually. But that is pure speculation.


    On a personal note I’m still very happy with mine, no plans to replace it, but my next bike was more than likely not going to be a Buell anyway. The XB12X has been discontinued in the Pacific for the past 2 years and it's the only one that fits me. If I've sounded sad about that in the past - I probably have been. If I was replacing my bike tomorrow, for the money, I'd simply go for a newer model. Even with all the dream machines I ride and test and rate highly, this is the one that's in my budget and feels like 'home' every time I jump back on it.

    As it is I have a spare drive belt on my bookshelf and apart from a few minor breakages (due to Big Dave style abuse) the bike has been reliable enough that I'm not concerned.

    Losers? No. But right now there are a heap of angry Buelligans leaving caustic messages on the H-D site and everywhere they can.

    That's sad, and the demise is sad for all the Buell people and their values, and I do wish them well, Erik had a 200 year plan, but at the end of the day I guess that’s business, and particularly a business that's wholly owned.

    He's the Captain of a ship torpedoed by its own Admirals. How that must smart and I bet his first thoughts were for his crew, too.

    For me, well...it's a brand of motorcycle that I still like/'d and life in NZ's rich and varied tapestry weaves on.

    May they all always shine brighter than their headlights.

  4. #94
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    11th April 2005 - 16:28
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    lml belladonna 2005, bmw F650 1993
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    Buells are a very individual bike.. they take some time to ride properly. I think that this will push the price of Buells up. I am certainly going to keep my highly worked M2 2002. Its a hot rod on two wheels... kinda like a Vu8 Supercar between your legs...

  5. #95
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    19th January 2006 - 19:13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    I rewrote some of it.

    As a Buell owner....

    A few people have asked me to comment on the Buell closure.

    If you open the approved hard cover biography of the Buell Motor Company '25 Years of Buell' by Court Canfield & Dave Gess at page 101 you'll see one of my pictures featuring Auckland Motorcycles & Power Sports Demo at Clarke's Beach, south of Auckland. Flip the page and 102 & 103 has a spread with two photos of me riding Buells and one of my own XB12X with Ruapehu in the background, plus a 600 word story on a factory ride, so I guess you could say I have some emotional attachment to the brand.

    I met Erik on the 1125R release and have supplied them with images, tested every model over the last few years and talked about the vehicles pretty regularly in print and online.

    If you haven't been following the second most discussed topic on Kiwi motorcyclist's agendas this week, the management at Harley-Davidson have announced that the Buell factory will not be re-opening after the previously reported two month Christmas closedown.

    Video of a visibly distraught EB discussing the closure, and megabytes of info are on KR or are googleable.

    One of my curmudgeonly pals enquired. ’Do you feel like you backed a loser with the demise of Buell?'

    No.

    I feel like we/he/they are a victim, not a loser.

    Some critics called Buell 'The red haired step child' and 'The mad scientist' referring to its periphery relative to core H-D operations.

    The set of circumstances that lead to this demise are sourced at the core.

    As my pal the Sarge said, 'Leverage is another word for dept'. The H-D finance arm was heavily leveraged and when the GFC house of cards collapsed they were in line for a bailout just like the Detroit car makers.

    If you talk to folks from Wisconsin (and a lot of other places) you hear that things aren’t very good.

    We seem to have had the fiscal policy in place in Aus and NZ so that the meltdown hasn’t been nearly as dramatic as some places in heartland USA. People are unemployed, hurting and in the H-D strategy announcement (on KR news site) revenues are down 80% and the excrement and the fan have collided.

    I’ve just tested the ’10 range and the products are the best they have ever been.

    The issue is sales that were made on the back of low deposit finance have evaporated and many have come back to haunt them. Their typical buyer is struggling for work or reluctant to tie up big bucks in (to what is to many) a recreational vehicle

    Buell accounted for 3% of Harley's sales. From what I glean on line there are about a dozen enthusiastic dealers in Continental USA. And that is all.

    Most of them are reported to be a far cry from what I am used to at AMPS - which has enthusiasts on staff, a range of vehicles that are very well suited to the twisty roads and NZ conditions, include a good range of colours and models and are placed immediately beside the front door.

    For a lot of American (and Australian) conditions Buells don't really suit the terrain. If I lived a few thousand K's due west I'd own a Road King.

    A fantastic handling sports machine isn't much use if all you have is superslab for 200 miles in either direction. So in many places the bikes are shoved to the back of the dealership and even (if you read online) criticised.

    Then I consider that my XB12X is 4 years old in a few weeks time. So far I have spent $5.95 customising it (I painted the windscreen). Some Buell owners bling them up - often with non-genuine H-D parts - and many just add a few farkles and are done.
    I'm quite happy and satisfied with mine bone stock.

    If you consider this against the average spend on accessorising a new HOG is around $NZ6,000, most of which has an attractive dealer margin, and you can begin to understand why US dealers aren’t so keen.

    In many dealers the red haired step children get pushed further to the back and the Fat Boys and Ultras get the spotlight and the razzamataz. The Buell inventory is for those that actively seek it out. And then they are likely to be steered to a Dyna. Bling!

    So when the parent company is bleeding from the inside and H-D say they are ‘rationalising the business’, they mean they want to concentrate on the most profitable parts. Buell isn't that, no matter how good the product gets, if the salesmen aren't buying it...

    Naturally I feel sorry for Erik and gutted for the enthusiasts that have lost their jobs, careers and families that will endure hardship.

    I'm also sad that a range of bikes that were good solutions for the local conditions won't be available.

    For their customers I read that there is a 10-year guarantee on parts availability.

    I’m guessing H-D won’t sell the Buell business because of the raft of IP & patents that are registered under the name. Many of which will find their way to H-D branded product eventually. But that is pure speculation.


    On a personal note I’m still very happy with mine, no plans to replace it, but my next bike was more than likely not going to be a Buell anyway. The XB12X has been discontinued in the Pacific for the past 2 years and it's the only one that fits me. If I've sounded sad about that in the past - I probably have been. If I was replacing my bike tomorrow, for the money, I'd simply go for a newer model. Even with all the dream machines I ride and test and rate highly, this is the one that's in my budget and feels like 'home' every time I jump back on it.

    As it is I have a spare drive belt on my bookshelf and apart from a few minor breakages (due to Big Dave style abuse) the bike has been reliable enough that I'm not concerned.

    Losers? No. But right now there are a heap of angry Buelligans leaving caustic messages on the H-D site and everywhere they can.

    That's sad, and the demise is sad for all the Buell people and their values, and I do wish them well, Erik had a 200 year plan, but at the end of the day I guess that’s business, and particularly a business that's wholly owned.

    He's the Captain of a ship torpedoed by its own Admirals. How that must smart and I bet his first thoughts were for his crew, too.

    For me, well...it's a brand of motorcycle that I still like/'d and life in NZ's rich and varied tapestry weaves on.

    May they all always shine brighter than their headlights.
    Good post D,is it true that Buell had the motor wrapped up legally?if so what now?
    Be the person your dog thinks you are...

  6. #96
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    3rd January 2005 - 11:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98tls View Post
    Good post D,is it true that Buell had the motor wrapped up legally?if so what now?
    Not sure - the dude has something like 28 patents.

    What's happening? No idea. But i'll try and get involved.

  7. #97
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    19th January 2006 - 19:13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    Not sure - the dude has something like 28 patents.

    What's happening? No idea. But i'll try and get involved.
    Cheers.bet theres some interested parties re that motor.Well one would hope so.All in all very sad and i found out very early on the day that it was later posted up on here,every morning at 4.30 i check in at the TL site and one of the merican guys had posted up the clip re Eric Buell...thought must be some American April fool thing but sadly no.
    Be the person your dog thinks you are...

  8. #98
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    12th April 2006 - 18:44
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    I bet they keep selling the HD mugs and toilet seats.
    "May all your traffic lights be green and none of your curves have oncoming semis in them." Rocky, American Biker.
    "Those that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, 18th C.

  9. #99
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    6th March 2006 - 15:57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    He's the Captain of a ship torpedoed by its own Admirals. How that must smart and I bet his first thoughts were for his crew, too.
    Yes....and no. For my (admittedly feeble) mind I can't help thinking he blew his own foot off to a certain degree, by concentrating on making exceptionally different bikes rather than just exceptional bikes. I've got nothing against the bikes, I find a couple of 'em curiously alluring but he'd just Kept It Simple Stupid he would have turned a lot of merely interested folks like myself into actual buyers.

    The new donk was supposed to be a Godsend but they dropped the ball with the design of the 1125rr too. They had some great looking and handling bikes that were just crying out for a more modern engine design. Hallelujah, it arrives and they transform their sweet lookin' XB12RR into one of the ugliest bikes on the market in the shape of the 1125rr.

    For Erik to crow about it's sporting success was just delusional too. DMG had to balatantly rig the rules to allow it to race against comparatively gutless 600's and smaller displacement twins in the AMA Pro Sportbike class. If that's not an admission that it's not a credible open class bike what is? How'd you reckon that made HD feel about stumping up for this cutting edge donk?

    Erik was a very clever bloke but pride has got a lot to do with their current situation. His refusal to compromise or adapt has come at a huge price. It's a shame, 'cos the motorcycle world is poorer for Buell's demise.

  10. #100
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    8th July 2005 - 02:55
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    Erik Buell has made his name on the world bike stage and it is one worth backing. I'm sure he will find a way to continue making great bikes

  11. #101
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    Yahhhh, go the Buell

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Yes....and no.
    . His refusal to compromise or adapt has come at a huge price
    Sorry. No diplomatic way of saying and I'm out the door to do the T'bird photo shoot - I find that wrong. He's a designer - the whole deal is about solutions.

    >>If that's not an admission that it's not a credible open class bike what is?<<

    Beating the similar capacity Aprilias and other thunder twins in the field.

    You seem to have missed my main point.

    If you stick the product in a dealer with good support and suitable conditions for the vehicles - they sell OK. (Look how many are on the road here.)
    If you stick them in a typical mainland USA Harley dealer - they don't.

    Beyond NZ the problem was the distribution and suitability - not the actual product.

    Edit: Distribution is the wrong word but YKWIM.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    If you stick the product in a dealer with good support and suitable conditions for the vehicles - they sell OK. (Look how many are on the road here.)
    If you stick them in a typical mainland USA Harley dealer - they don't.

    Beyond NZ the problem was the distribution - not the product.
    Yip as you've said,i've read on lots of Buell forums most US dealers think they are/where poor cousins to H-Ds.
    Service or work on a Buell, how'd do that?.
    waiting two weeks for parts...
    Harley Davidson: The most efficient way to convert gasoline into noise without the side effects of horsepower.

    'Fast' Harleys are only fast compared to stock Harleys.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    I think it's more pertinent to the raft of patents that Buell owned.
    You can always sell the business, retain the patents and sell rights to use. If the melt down in the US is bad then the problem is Buell need to find a buyer, need a business plan and I'm guessing the forecasts don't look good enough at this time for a buyer. If there is one. That or HD plan to diversify the HD brand.

    Whatever the reason it's a loss to have the bike gone. The only other reason to pull the plug on the brand is if it's losing money or soaking up capital.

    EB may be in the situation where he can't leave and recreate the brand because HD own it.

    Being a fly on the wall in recent meetings at HD over this would have been interesting.

    Imagine trying to convince people who own your baby not to throw it out with the bath water.

    Corporate America and the corporate western philosophy seems to be to cut when times are bad. It seems to me you lose a lot of good. As an employee I'd rather be in a business that offers to reduce pay by 10% than lay off 10% of the workforce. They just retrain and re-hire when times are better anyway.

    It's always seemed a shortsighted and stupid practise to me. Where people are treated as a business cost and the human factor is thrown out. But businesses are the human factor.
    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single motorcycle

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  15. #105
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    If BD is right about the distribution thing and Buell sales/production can grow rapidly then there is a huge opportunity for a buyer to whip Buell up at a bargain price.

    Interesting times.
    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single motorcycle

    Click here for: - Changing Dyslexia, Depression, Anxiety, Trauma, Phobia's, Allergies etc

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