Watch for the REAL agenda

[caseye]

Won't "affect" me in any way at all....

Nothing overly new there... most, if not all, powers of search, entering property, stopping vehicles, seizure etc without warrant, already exist.

Patrick, thats exactly my point.Any Police officer with a grain of intelligence can and does use existing powers of search and stopping effectively and within reasonable parrameters.
The proposed changes relate specifically to major crime/ criminals.
The spin off however means that the ordinary citizen becomes collateral damage and loses yet more ordinary citizenery rights/privilages for no good reason.
Police have increasingly become slaves of Politicians.
They never were and never should have been able to be.

[DidJit]

Won't "affect" me in any way at all....

Nothing overly new there... most, if not all, powers of search, entering property, stopping vehicles, seizure etc without warrant, already exist.

In that case, why is this bill being introduced?

[Patrick]

This scares me more than any ACC Levy hike!

Hell no... the ACC Levy hike scares me. This doesn't. I am not into committing major crime. I have two bikes bigger than 600cc.... THAT scares me.......

I resent being treated like a criminal in petrol stations.

HUH??? I take this is due to having to take a helmet off? No problems down here. Too many armed robberies in times gone by when the helmet was the favorite form of disguise.

I detest having to wait for a right turn red arrow simply because some few other road users are too damnd dumb to know when not to go!

becasue some too damned dumb, couldn't work it out......

Being able to be stopped by Police for NO Reason and if I have a drivers licence being able to be fined for not carrying it on me, even if I'm walking down the street, concerns me greatly.

I've NEVER seen anyone get a ticket for not having their license on them while they were walking down the street......

We have lost so many ordinary rights/privilages already.

There is no requirement for this type of major law change.

If our Police and other enforcement agencies simply did their damn job properly this sort of draconian legislation would not be being talked about.

Its to target serious crime, where the crims can hide behind all sorts of laws designed to protect the innocent. It still does. The problem at present is, that the current laws protect the guilty WAY too much.....

[Patrick]

Patrick, thats exactly my point.Any Police officer with a grain of intelligence can and does use existing powers of search and stopping effectively and within reasonable parrameters.
The proposed changes relate specifically to major crime/ criminals.

Should have read on... You answered your own query, really..... see my above post......

The spin off however means that the ordinary citizen becomes collateral damage and loses yet more ordinary citizenery rights/privilages for no good reason.

Said it Before, I'll say it again... and the civil libertarian cardigan wearing tree hugging sandal wearers will get frothy... just watch.......

Do no wrong, you have absolutely nothing to fear.....

Police have increasingly become slaves of Politicians.
They never were and never should have been able to be.

This last bit could be true. Unfortunately, that is how it is with ANY government department. The govt makes the laws, rules etc, and they pay the wages. If they want something stopped, who they gonna call? The department created, to stop it...... Whichever dept that may be.

In that case, why is this bill being introduced?

To target major criminals, hiding behind, and using laws to their benefit, that protect the innocent. The innocent will remain just that - completely innocent. The major crims are getting a rocket, right up their arse, and they won't like it....... Can't see a problem at all with that...... IMHO.......

[caseye]

Said it Before, I'll say it again... and the civil libertarian cardigan wearing tree hugging sandal wearers will get frothy... just watch.......

Do no wrong, you have absolutely nothing to fear.....

Patrick, I'm afraid that if you believe this you are going to get a very rude awakening one day.
If all Police officer were smart intelligent fair minded people then I'd agree with you 100%.
Problem is they're not, theres great ones, good ones and bloody awful ones, these days there are actually criminally inclined ones too.
We can all be wrong, but when a copper is wrong, for whatever reason ordinary peoples lives get turfed upside down. This I have seen first hand.

I too have yet to see someone getting a ticket for not having their licence on them.
bUTT and heres the kicker. Now they can and given the right curcumstance they will.Gee thanks Aunty helen.

Oh the gas station one, I was referring to having to pay before I know how much I'm going to take to fill up my vehicle, bike or car.

And the red right turn arrow, I can remember when there were no right hand red arrows people were allowed to exercise theri own personal responsibility, a very few made it impossible for that to happen any more and here we are with mindless morons waiting at lights burning up our precious fossil fuels.
Nanny bloody state again.

[DidJit]

To target major criminals, hiding behind, and using laws to their benefit, that protect the innocent. The innocent will remain just that - completely innocent. The major crims are getting a rocket, right up their arse, and they won't like it....... Can't see a problem at all with that...... IMHO.......

Cheers Patrick, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to us from your point of view. It's good to get the "inside word," so to speak, on this matter.

[earl]

4000 bikes in Lambton quay at rush hour should do the trick.........and then again the next morning!

[caseye]

I'd be in for that!

[Skyryder]

Its to target serious crime, where the crims can hide behind all sorts of laws designed to protect the innocent. It still does. The problem at present is, that the current laws protect the guilty WAY too much.....

That is precisely the problem. You see the current laws as protecting the guilty.

Laws are in place to protect the innocent. That officer is the function of the legal system of which you are a part of. It is precisely why you need proof of a crime instead of myself or others having to prove our innocence.

As for the comments that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear try telling Scot Watson that or these people

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0910/S00199.htm

Skyryder

[Patrick]

Patrick, I'm afraid that if you believe this you are going to get a very rude awakening one day.

After 24 years, I can't see that day arriving soon enough....

If all Police officer were smart intelligent fair minded people then I'd agree with you 100%.
Problem is they're not, theres great ones, good ones and bloody awful ones, these days there are actually criminally inclined ones too.

Sad, but true... Can't argue there... but these criminally inclined ones are also being protected by the laws that are designed to protect the innocent.....

We can all be wrong, but when a copper is wrong, for whatever reason ordinary peoples lives get turfed upside down. This I have seen first hand.

I too have yet to see someone getting a ticket for not having their licence on them.
bUTT and heres the kicker. Now they can and given the right curcumstance they will.Gee thanks Aunty helen.

My point was "while walking down the road."

If you're driving and you don't produce your license, that's a $55 ticket.... maybe..... and it has been around for some time now.....

Oh the gas station one, I was referring to having to pay before I know how much I'm going to take to fill up my vehicle, bike or car.

Yeah... they don't really do that in these parts. All those "petrol drive offs" to thank for that one....... The minority ruining it for the majority.... again.....

And the red right turn arrow, I can remember when there were no right hand red arrows people were allowed to exercise theri own personal responsibility, a very few made it impossible for that to happen any more and here we are with mindless morons waiting at lights burning up our precious fossil fuels.
Nanny bloody state again.

LOL Too true..... but these days, "personal responsibility" has long gone...........

That is precisely the problem. You see the current laws as protecting the guilty.

Not quite. They protect the innocent, as they should.

They also "protect" the grossly guilty...........

Laws are in place to protect the innocent. That officer is the function of the legal system of which you are a part of. It is precisely why you need proof of a crime instead of myself or others having to prove our innocence.

But if you have done no wrong......? Unless you are talkling of some sort of stitch up?

As for the comments that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear try telling Scot Watson that or these people

Skyryder

Now stop teasing....

We all know Scott WATSON is guilty.

Get Scott to talk to Joe KARAM.... Them tourists probably topped themselves.

[Skyryder]

Get Scott to talk to Joe KARAM.... Them tourists probably topped themselves.

Karem can only get the 'guilty' off.


Been a little movement on the Watson thing. Hide turned up to some function or another at some coffee house. Don't know much more.


Skyryder

[pete376403]

Wow, the nz version of the patriot act anyone.

A little more than a "few" liberties will go down the shitter with that legislation.

I guess we are a few steps closer to the totalitarian society feared and predicted by many.

Dubyas playbook has become Keys playbook, As you say we now have our own versions of the patriot act, plus theres Anne Tolleys national standards for schools (they called it No Child Left Behind) and another Bushism was trying to wind down welfare / superannuation on the basis that it was no longer affordable. Guess we will be declaring war on some muslim nation any day now.

[Cache Wraith]

.... Folks watch out for the legislation the gubbiment is really trying to get passed whilst us bikers are focussed on a pretty odvious attention getter.
Either that or they always have expected this reaction and really want to just say doub;le the ACC levvy.
Bikers think they have won and gubbiment gets exactly what it planned all along.

Bloody perceptive. This is a tactic used by the New World Order (NWO) in the states. They create headline grabbing catastrophes in the states and when the media is focussed on that, they pass laws through congress furthering their agenda. This NZ Bill has NWO written all over it. The ACC levy is a smokescreen. Rally's at parliament with hundreds of bikers? Perfect distraction.