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Thread: Harold quite sympathetic

  1. #1
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    Harold quite sympathetic

    Quite sympatetic treatment in today's Harold Editorial

    (Highlighting is mine)
    By far the biggest change proposed is a steep increase in the ACC levy component of registration for motorcycles, which is now $252.69.
    The levy on riders of mid-sized bikes (with engine capacities of between 126cc and 599cc would more than double to $511.43, and for riders of big machines (600cc and over) almost treble to $745.77.
    The tiny mopeds which have proliferated since petrol price rises of the past few years go from around $60 to more than $250 - a more-than-fourfold increase. Motorcycles of less than $125cc get off lightly, with an increase of only a few dollars.
    These figures assume that the target date for so-called full funding, by which ACC takes in enough each year to cover the ongoing future costs of claims received in that year, will not be postponed from 2014 to 2019.
    If it is postponed, the increases will be mitigated and, in the case of small motorcycles, the levy will actually fall. But plainly the impact on ACC's finances of injuries to motorcyclists is insupportable without change.
    The riders themselves point to official figures showing that more than half of accidents in which they are involved are the fault of car drivers.
    In a no-fault system where entitlements to treatment are based on need, not blame, that cannot be regarded as a complete argument: the fiscal risk of motorcycling rises in proportion to the number of motorcycles, and it is idle to suggest that someone other than motorcyclists should bear the cost.
    But it does point to the larger problem which needs to be addressed: in the 35 years since ACC was established, so many bits have been carved off and clipped on that it bears little resemblance to the original design.
    Anomalies abound: people who work in dangerous jobs pay more in earner levies than people who work in offices, but rugby league forwards incur no more expense by way of premium payment than those whose leisure preference is macrame.
    Just what Mr Smith does not want - more publicity
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

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    And a quote from Kerre Woodham's column. She's probably about as main stream general public as it gets
    And I do feel sorry for motorcyclists - if the system is going towards user pays, surely the sale of alcohol must have a massive ACC levy attached to it to help pay for the huge costs associated with alcohol-related injury
    Not sure about the alcohol bit. But the "feel sorry" sums it up, and that's what we can capitalise on.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    ... the "feel sorry" sums it up, and that's what we can capitalise on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Quite sympatetic treatment in today's Harold Editorial

    (Highlighting is mine)


    Just what Mr Smith does not want - more publicity
    Has anybody split the MX, farm, off road portion off the stats that the MP and ACC are using as the resoning behind this yet ?
    Have seen the bicycle stats and not that we can use it as an arguement but the off road side of things could come in very handy for media publications !
    A girlfriend once asked " Why is it you seem to prefer to race, than spend time with me ?"
    The answer was simple ! "I'll prolly get bored with racing too, once i've nailed it !"

    Bowls can wait !

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    The riders themselves point to official figures showing that more than half of accidents in which they are involved are the fault of car drivers.

    And when the figures are placed in front of us (and worse - the general public) showing that this is not the case then we will be made to look stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The riders themselves point to official figures showing that more than half of accidents in which they are involved are the fault of car drivers.

    And when the figures are placed in front of us showing that this is not the case then we will be made to look stupid.
    And that is a mute arguement with the no blame system anyway so we need to find a better one ! Correct ?
    A girlfriend once asked " Why is it you seem to prefer to race, than spend time with me ?"
    The answer was simple ! "I'll prolly get bored with racing too, once i've nailed it !"

    Bowls can wait !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The riders themselves point to official figures showing that more than half of accidents in which they are involved are the fault of car drivers.

    And when the figures are placed in front of us (and worse - the general public) showing that this is not the case then we will be made to look stupid.
    Do you have those figures?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinfull View Post
    And that is a mute arguement with the no blame system anyway so we need to find a better one ! Correct ?
    That may well be true Bill but I fear those words will be used in an attempt to derail our efforts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    That may well be true Bill but those words will be used to derail our efforts.
    True that !
    Why they should not be used !
    A girlfriend once asked " Why is it you seem to prefer to race, than spend time with me ?"
    The answer was simple ! "I'll prolly get bored with racing too, once i've nailed it !"

    Bowls can wait !

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    So its a no fault system meaning all bikers accidents are biker pays? to me that sounds like biker fault. Or is it just that we decide to partake in a more risky activity so we should pay more, which sounds like user pays. Doesnt make sense to me, but ill stop using these stats (with discussions with mates collegues etc, I aint gonna be talking to media ) as it sounds like a no go area.
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

  11. #11
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    Extract from TVNZ

    "We have motorcar drivers still subsidising the cost of motorcycle injuries by $77 a head. So this is a fairness and equity issue," says Jan White, ACC Chief Executive.

    If this is a "fairness and equity issue" why aren't sports players etc being hit as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankMe
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemethod View Post
    Do you have those figures?
    The general concensus at the moment seems to be that 58% of motorcycle related accidents are the fault of the motorcyclist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOONR View Post
    Extract from TVNZ

    "We have motorcar drivers still subsidising the cost of motorcycle injuries by $77 a head. So this is a fairness and equity issue," says Jan White, ACC Chief Executive.

    If this is a "fairness and equity issue" why aren't sports players etc being hit as well.
    So the fact that I own a Ute as well as a bike means I subsidise myself.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedrostt500 View Post
    So the fact that I own a Ute as well as a bike means I subsidise myself.
    Same and as I don't play rugby etc I'm subsidising the people that do.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankMe
    KB does not require a high standard of membership behavior.

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    I'm really quite worried about over-use of statistics to try and present a logical case. In the Bronz post, I attached my letter to the consultative process and it's worth re-posting the first point here:

    1. Raising ACC does absolutely nothing to address the root cause of motorcycle or car accidents, it is almost literally just providing more ambulances at the bottom of the cliff. As a competent driver/rider with a good history, I would be discriminated against by paying for those with a less acceptable accident record. Surely, raising the standard of driving is truly addressing the root cause, whether it be on a motorcycle or a 4-wheeled vehicle? The techniques which I learned on my advanced courses, particularly the ones concerned with situational awareness should be mandatory at the most basic level as part of tuition. The standards required to attain a licence are laughable compared with many other western countries. This really is the nub of the issue. PLEASE CONCENTRATE ON RAISING DRIVING STANDARDS LIKE MANY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.

    I'm scared that if we argue about the fine points of statistics, we'll lose sight of the real issues where we can probably get some traction.

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