ACC to be opened up to competition

[RavenR44]

A private company is interesting in minimising costs to maximise profit.

And the most effective way to minimise costs and maximise profit is to restrict payouts on claims. You're seriously suggesting we hurtle down that slippery slope? And before you claim that competition will keep it fair, care to supply compelling evidence that the insurance industry and health insurance providers are anything but cartels in themselves?

Nice theory though.

[short-circuit]

Ye hah! Bring it on I say. Give me the option to have private accident cover.

Oh yeah - fanfuckentastic: Derail ACC through claiming a false financial predicament, hike cost to a point where it becomes untenable, invite private insurance options.

Then watch over time as private insurers hike their premiums in unison and reduce their eligibility criteria.

If you think that's a good outcome, you need your head read

[phred]

So
Keep the existing ACC idea and run it properly.
Good place to start is cutting senior managment salaries and headcount.
Contain costs - pay only for accidents.
Control the suppliers. I am sick of seeing the sandwich board sign near me that advertises free acc acupuncture.
Spread the cost across all users.
Don't pay for injuries sustained during criminal activities. etc etc etc.
Its a scheme with good intent that has become a public trough to be funded by motorcyclists????

[yachtie10]

So
Keep the existing ACC idea and run it properly.
Good place to start is cutting senior managment salaries and headcount.
Contain costs - pay only for accidents.
Control the suppliers. I am sick of seeing the sandwich board sign near me that advertises free acc acupuncture.
Spread the cost across all users.
Don't pay for injuries sustained during criminal activities. etc etc etc.
Its a scheme with good intent that has become a public trough to be funded by motorcyclists????

Sounds good to me
except there needs to be an excess on claims to limit the abuse

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

So
Keep the existing ACC idea and run it properly.

ACC has 11b in the bank, bank 1b, and only 1.7b in claims... last year has a turn over of 4.5b

The problem is they want it to be 23billion to met future claims and be funnly funded for the future... They way I see it, it just going to take long how long I don't know...

Good place to start is cutting senior managment salaries and headcount.
Contain costs - pay only for accidents.
Control the suppliers. I am sick of seeing the sandwich board sign near me that advertises free acc acupuncture.

yup agreed

Spread the cost across all users.

That was the way it was suppose to be run and used... community based

Don't pay for injuries sustained during criminal activities. etc etc etc.

yup agreed again... patch em up and kick out the door to the paddy wagon

Its a scheme with good intent that has become a public trough to be funded by motorcyclists????

can't answer that just that, thats what it appears to be...

[Winston001]

Lets be accurate about where matters stand. To get support from ACT and the Maori Party to introduce the current ACC legislation, National has agreed to discussion of competition at the Select Committe stage. This is where the real work of Parliament is done and laws are fine-tuned - or sometimes even abandoned.

The proposal is to allow insurance companies to compete for workers compensation. There won't be any sale of ACC.

Personally I'm opposed to bringing in insurance companies but we are a long way from that place yet.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Personally I'm opposed to bringing in insurance companies but we are a long way from that place yet.

they tried in 98 - 00 and failed...

[Stan]

Personally I'm opposed to bringing in insurance companies but we are a long way from that place yet.

Don't be too sure. I know the submissions don't close until November 10 but I'll bet this deal is done and dusted. National and ACT have sewn this up and the insurance industry are gonna party.

[GOONR]

Don't be too sure. I know the submissions don't close until November 10 but I'll bet this deal is done and dusted. National and ACT have sewn this up and the insurance industry are gonna party.

Yup, insurance companies have been waiting for this to come round, they have had plans in place for quite a while now. I reckon they have been leaning on people to get this on the go.

[scissorhands]

If I never paid any insurance I'd be much better off right now.

I bet a whole lot of people could say that

[slowpoke]

Hay this is pretty simple. If you think an insurance company is going to make squillions out of running accident cover - then buy shares in them, and enjoy getting a great dividend.

You'd have to have a large sum invested to recover the extra $$$ it's going to cost. You'd need a few grand invested to recieve a dividend large enough to cover an increase of just $100. Your solution simply isn't feasable for the average person let alone family.

Yup, insurance companies have been waiting for this to come round, they have had plans in place for quite a while now. I reckon they have been leaning on people to get this on the go.

Exactly, insurance companies aren't sitting back and waiting for anything, they are driving it. It's just another market to exploit.

To my mind most of a governemnts role is to supply and manage essential services: police/justice, health, defense etc. For people to have to make basic decisions regarding their level of basic health care based on wealth doesn't sit well with me.

If they can do this with health care why not the police? Crime insurance or pay as you go perhaps: "Yes ma'am we are more than happy to send a unit to your alleged assault, will you be using Visa or Mastercard?"

The supposed premise that private industry is more cost effective than a public service is just a crock. Why would anyone want to sell a concern that cost X dollars to run and then turn around and pay X dollars plus profit for exactly the same service. Needless to say a private company's KPI can only ever be the bottom line whereas a public/government service can be measured by the quality of service it brings because the shareholders are basically the people using the service. And it's not like the private companies are going to be NZ owned so we are simply making overseas people more wealthy at our expense.

But there is no ex-politician in a pay-back cushy job being paid to whisper in the right ears and fill party coffers working on Joe Public's behalf so no doubt the Key-stone Kops will opt for the option that works best for them. To do otherwise would deplete their campaign funds and negate any chance of ever scoring one of those pay-back cushy jobs themselves. And the grandest irony of all is that politicians are still called "public servants".......

[Winston001]

Exactly, insurance companies aren't sitting back and waiting for anything, they are driving it. It's just another market to exploit.

If they can do this with health care why not the police? Crime insurance or pay as you go perhaps: "Yes ma'am we are more than happy to send a unit to your alleged assault, will you be using Visa or Mastercard?"

The supposed premise that private industry is more cost effective than a public service is just a crock.

..... no doubt the Key-stone Kops will opt for the option that works best for them. To do otherwise would deplete their campaign funds and negate any chance of ever scoring one of those pay-back cushy jobs themselves.

Oh dear......conspiracy theory is alive and well.

I'm opposed to insurance companies competing with ACC which is a good - if flawed system. Having said that, it is an effective way to make ACC look to its mettle and aim at greater efficiencies.

As for public service being efficent, just ask anyone who wanted a phone connected before Telecom was sold.

[MacD]

A private company is interesting in minimising costs to maximise profit.

ACC has no motive to minimise costs. Just look at the massive administrative cost they have!

A private company is interested in maximising return to shareholders, administrative costs are only part of the equation.

ACC is more cost efficient than systems in place in similar countries such as Australia, Canada and the UK.

Read the 2008 PriceWaterhouseCoopers report attached to my post in another thread.

[p.dath]

A private company is interested in maximising return to shareholders, administrative costs are only part of the equation.

ACC is more cost efficient than systems in place in similar countries such as Australia, Canada and the UK.

Read the 2008 PriceWaterhouseCoopers report attached to my post in another thread.

PCW have a vested interested. I wouldn't trust them.

I guess it depends on a one cost, one solution fits all model. I'd prefer to have the option of having more/less cover, and for my risk (and not everyone elses) to be reflected in those costs.

[Naki Rat]

ACC has 11b in the bank, bank 1b, and only 1.7b in claims... last year has a turn over of 4.5b

The problem is they want it to be 23billion to met future claims and be funnly funded for the future... They way I see it, it just going to take long how long I don't know...

True, ACC has a substantial chest of investments that has survived the fallout from the recession better than most. The government is financially strapped ("borrowing $23 million/week") and would very much like access to that investment piggybank.

So, if they can engineer the privatisation of ACC and open it up to competition that will see many 'clients' jumping ship to sign up with other insurers. Those past clients will take their 'past history' with them potentially freeing ACC from all those future claims linked to pre-existing conditions, medical treatment claims and long term disabilities.

What are the chances of a new insurer entertaining a claim on the upgrading of a bolted/plated bone or long term emerging complications on a workplace substance exposure case? A large part of that responsibilty would probably end up dropped in the lap of our already struggling (stuffed?) public health system

Now unburdened from the previous mountain of 'future expenses' on present claims the ACC will then not require a substantial portion of their investment holding, so who better to raid the treasure chest than the government. It's nothing new.

We all know that the consolidated fund is milked dry in order to pay the welfare bill. FFS if the fuel taxes were used to build/upgrade roads we would have a highway network that would have most of us considering Harleys

Kind of all makes sense doesn't it ? And we are but collateral damage in the greater scheme of things But only if we let it happen See y'all on the 17th