ACC motorcycle levies should be dropped!

[Mystic13]

Many people have commented here and in the media that they have no problem with an increase in our levies it's just the size. We should pay our share. I wanted to offer the counter argument. We already pay our share and more what we need to do is reduce that to the same as cars so we are not overpaying so much.

Why should Motorcycle levies be reduced?

ACC say they got $12.3 Million in and paid out $62 million last year. This is misleading at best.

No Fault / Fault

ACC are proposing to target us as a group to pay for our care attributing fault. In this case they have statistics that show for injuries motorcyclists are at fault 51% of the time. It is clear that in around 45% of cases another vehicle is at fault. In that case if ACC wants to target those responsible and they have the statistics ACC be looking to recover that from other vehicles if they were to target the source of the cost.

Income Correction - It's $21.1 million

ACC suggest that the motorcycle levy is the only vehicle levy we pay and of Course this isn’t the whole picture as in excess of 99% of motorcyclists own a car. Therefore the income ACC gets from the motorcyclists is $392.09 on the motorcycle levy and $279.09 on the car levy or $21.1 million not $12.3 million.

Expenditure Correction - It's already below our fee income

45% of injury claims are caused by other road users as such the total expenditure should be reduced by 45%. From $62 million to $27.9 million. It should be noted that we are almost at parity with our income being close to our total costs at this point. NO INCREASE IS JUSTIFIED.

There are insufficient questions to determine if a rider crash has occurred on a road registered motorcycle or not. We estimate as much as 50% of the injuries on the account belong to non-road registered riders. We are unable to identify the specific figure because ACC do not have the statistics. That being the case the expenses should be reduced by a further 50%. From $27.9 million to $14 million. ACC are now receiving more income than they are paying out.

At this point I think it’s clear that our fees should be reduced to parity with cars as a minimum. Although there is a clear argument for them to be reduced further.

If the non-road registered claims account for 24% then we're at parity.

Personally if ACC want to play the blame game they should go further. There is no basis for an increase in ACC fees. There is a basis for reduction.

ACC also say they want to load over 600cc bikes at 150%. Bikes on average are already loaded at 240% The car fee and bike fee combined that motorcyclists pay is $671.18 or 240% of the car fee. This again suggests we should face a reduction.

ACC have been a little mischievous or a lot ignorant when making up their numbers.

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So what other stats are erroneous. (and if you can deal to them on one stat per post that would be good.)

[Clockwork]

A very complelling argument. Well done.

[YellowDog]

I agree that this arguament is reasonable and it certainly does point to the fact that if 90% of motorcycle owners also drive cars, then the ACC costs should be spread amongst all road users.

IMO - It is a structural charge that is required. If they come back and say " Forget $750pa, we've had a rethink, howabout $500," that is still way too high.

[StoneY]

ACC suggest that the motorcycle levy is the only vehicle levy we pay and of Course this isn’t the whole picture as in excess of 99% of motorcyclists own a car. Therefore the income ACC gets from the motorcyclists is $392.09 on the motorcycle levy and $279.09 on the car levy or $21.1 million not $12.3 million.

Your figures are almost as bad as Nick Smith
You are saying the WHOLE of our vehicle registration is an ACC levy, your mistaken my friend

Good angle to come from, more research required


As at 30 June 2009 we have 134,973 vehicles registered in NZ that are considered 'motorcycles' under the Levy system
IF the levy is say $280 of our registration fee (not an accurate figure but close to the actual from the arguments 8 months ago over THAT increase) is $37,792,440 collected

That chart I have screenshot and pasted below is from NZTA, current information and accurate as possible

Now, go find out exactly what the Levy part of the fee is, and start again

Right directtion bro, good effort, but dont make the same mistake as Nicky boy and sell your proposal and incorrect figures, too much at stake here

EDIT: I cut ATV's off the chart sorry but theyre paying to M'Cycle levy fund and there are 4,760 REGISTERED ATV's in NZ as at 30 June 09

[James Deuce]

Good argument. Remove the emotive content and you have a well presented angle on those particular stats.

[Mystic13]

Your figures are almost as bad as Nick Smith
You are saying the WHOLE of our vehicle registration is an ACC levy, your mistaken my friend

Good angle to come from, more research required


As at 30 June 2009 we have 134,973 vehicles registered in NZ that are considered 'motorcycles' under the Levy system
IF the levy is say $280 of our registration fee (not an accurate figure but close to the actual from the arguments 8 months ago over THAT increase) is $37,792,440 collected

That chart I have screenshot and pasted below is from NZTA, current information and accurate as possible

Now, go find out exactly what the Levy part of the fee is, and start again

Right directtion bro, good effort, but dont make the same mistake as Nicky boy and sell your proposal and incorrect figures, too much at stake here

EDIT: I cut ATV's off the chart sorry but theyre paying to M'Cycle levy fund and there are 4,760 REGISTERED ATV's in NZ as at 30 June 09

Damn, I pulled those figures off the ACC site. Also ACC reported the $12.3 Million income from motorcycles. So is this income figure for ACC levy for motorcycles misreported as well? That just makes things worse (better for us).

So are you saying the ACC figure income figure is incorrect. And 135 thou rego'd vehicles doesn't mean they got a full years rego from all of them.

So far I've not seen anyone challenge the ACC income figure that they posted.

And thanks I just checked ACC and while I copied the numbers correctly I misunderstood the heading. If you give me the correct numbers I'll re-edit the first post. Except do we have any better way of finding what the income was that ACC got from motorcycle rego.

Thanks.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

So far I've not seen anyone challenge the ACC income figure that they posted.

That would be the hardest one to disprove

[StoneY]

If you give me the correct numbers I'll re-edit the first post. Except do we have any better way of finding what the income was that ACC got from motorcycle rego.

Thanks.

Nah bro no need to re-edit just keep discussing, and we can all find the truth as long as we are very creful NOT to do a Nick Smith and provide half cooked cakes for afternoon smoko

I like where your heading though, great work, well done
As soon as I have the info from the OIA request i made this morning, I will post it up

[Mystic13]

I was in at a National MP's office the other day and lying on the table he had a single page reference sheet that carried a lot of the misinformation. So it's not so much a case of them understanding what is happening but relying on this summary of misinformation that they have been given.