Kiwirider November 2009 Edition

**Muppet** · 24th October 2009, 21:40

Originally Posted by p.dath

Here you go Kiwirider, what every publication wants, free publicity.

I bought the latest edition about a week ago, but today was the first time I've had enough free time to actually sit down to read it.

I get to page 6 where the editorial is located by the executive editor, Ross MacKay, and it starts in on the Ministry of Transport's Safer Journey's discussion paper.

Oh dear. It just went down hill from there. First of all he goes on a rant how the major contributing factors to road accidents are not in fact the widely accepted factors of speed and alcohol, and then gives his opinion that the two major factors are road surface and the ability of the driver to control their vehicle.

The surface of the road has little to do with someone's decision to drink and/or drive at high speed. Of course alcohol impairs their ability to maintain control of their vehicle - but it is the alcohol causing this, and not their actual driving ability. You can't train someone to drink and drive safely.

And then he goes on to talk about all his driving/riding experience, and makes a comparison with Australia, and says that he has to re-calibrate his brain when coming back to NZ because Australia doesn't have decreasing radius corners like we do here, and then goes on to talk about having to scrub off speed and stand the bike up mid-corner.
It's not the roads fault that you entered the corner too hot. The road didn't suddenly change its layout. Surely a rider with the said claimed years of experience wouldn't be entering corners so hot that he has difficulty controlling his bike.

After reading such rubbish from the "Executive Editor" I found myself putting down the magazine. If the editors management can't even get the major contributing causes of road accidents right, has lots of experience riding yet can't manage cornering, then what is the quality of the remaining articles going to be like - that they oversee? Are those articles also full of lots of made up mis-guided information?

So save your money for a publication that might be able to get some of its information right. I regret my purchase. Don't make the same mistake.

Typical 'blame anyone but myself' attitude, I can just see him explaining himself after he rides off the road and crashes, "the road made me do it officer, honest!"

Obviously he's never heard of vanishing points, apexes, looking where you want to go, counter steering etc And who cares if he's been riding for years, doesn't mean he's any good.

**tigertim20** · 25th October 2009, 10:46

Originally Posted by FJRider

19% (thats one in five) of motorcycle "accidents" are caused by unlicenced riders, or riders without the correct licence for the motorcycle they were riding, inexperience usually equates to inability... Inability to control their vehicle.

im gunna be a picky wanker here, and just point out that not having a licence does not automatically equate to inexperience. I personally know of several people who have ridden for 15 or more years who just never quite got around to getting the licence thing done even though most of them have partaken in safe riding courses etc. (I am neither condoning or looking down on this, just stating it)

Now your personal experience may well differ from mine, but I am just saying that many people riding without a licence have been riding for years and years and are quite experienced. numbers and stats do not tell the whole story.

sorry, just wanted to be a picky bastard!

**FJRider** · 25th October 2009, 10:59

Originally Posted by tigertim20

Numbers and stats do not tell the whole story.

This point alone is the one more people should understand, and consider carefully its implications ...

Feel free to be as picky as you like.... And not ALL unlicenced riders will/have crashed. Thus... are not part of those stats.

**Crasherfromwayback** · 25th October 2009, 11:09

Originally Posted by p.dath

a comparison with Australia, and says that he has to re-calibrate his brain when coming back to NZ because Australia doesn't have decreasing radius corners like we do here, and then goes on to talk about having to scrub off speed and stand the bike up mid-corner.
It's not the roads fault that you entered the corner too hot. The road didn't suddenly change its layout. Surely a rider with the said claimed years of experience wouldn't be entering corners so hot that he has difficulty controlling his bike.

That's where you're wrong. You can enter a corner at the correct speed only to have it tighten up so that you're now in too hot. Decreasing radius corners are a killer and nothing but shit engineering. In the 5000km's in did in the States in 07 I never came across a single one. Our roads are shit. Tar bleed is another killer. Not to say the roads are the only problem though.

**2wheeldrifter** · 25th October 2009, 11:19

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

That's where you're wrong. You can enter a corner at the correct speed only to have it tighten up so that you're now in too hot. Decreasing radius corners are a killer and nothing but shit engineering. In the 5000km's in did in the States in 07 I never came across a single one. Our roads are shit. Tar bleed is another killer. Not to say the roads are the only problem though.

Have to agree.. there are many corners around NZ that tighen up AND GIVE YOU A SURPRISE! our roads are bad with poor cambers, dips in patchs etc etc etc the roads don't help!

**Crasherfromwayback** · 25th October 2009, 11:23

Originally Posted by 2wheeldrifter

Have to agree.. there are many corners around NZ that tighen up AND GIVE YOU A SURPRISE! our roads are bad with poor cambers, dips in patchs etc etc etc the roads don't help!

Fuck yeah. If you're on a Harley etc and have hard parts on the deck when the corner tightens up...you have yourself a problem.

**Devil** · 25th October 2009, 11:30

Uhhh, he's actually right according to the crash stats. It's not speed and alcohol. Loss of control is right up there at the top, driver incompetence basically.

I'm too busy to go find the info, but consider yourself sucked in by the LTNZ and the police with the speed kills bollocks.

**Crasherfromwayback** · 25th October 2009, 11:32

Originally Posted by Devil

Uhhh, he's actually right according to the crash stats. It's not speed and alcohol. Loss of control is right up there at the top, driver incompetence basically.

I'm too busy to go find the info, but consider yourself sucked in by the LTNZ and the police with the speed kills bollocks.

Well loss of control is mostly attributed to excessive speed for the conditions/your ability anyway mate...so in a way...speed does kill. Those who are going too fast for their own good.

**Devil** · 25th October 2009, 11:41

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

Well loss of control is mostly attributed to excessive speed for the conditions/your ability anyway mate...so in a way...speed does kill. Those who are going too fast for their own good.

Thats right, but "speed" is pretty general. Too fast for the conditions is a little more specific. As we all well know you're not going to die doing 150km/h down the highway on a good day.
The highest things on the list are Loss of control, too fast for the conditions and poor decisions by the driver.

**p.dath** · 25th October 2009, 11:45

Originally Posted by Devil

Uhhh, he's actually right according to the crash stats. It's not speed and alcohol. Loss of control is right up there at the top, driver incompetence basically.

That's like saying the earth revolving causes the accidents. Sure it is revolving, but that isn't the actual issue.

Sure loss of control occurs - but what do you think causes that loss of control? Alcohol and speed feature prominently.

**Crasherfromwayback** · 25th October 2009, 11:47

Originally Posted by p.dath

That's like saying the earth revolving causes the accidents. Sure it is revolving, but that isn't the actual issue.

Without gavity we'd crash into all sorts of objects mate...like...like...maybe even the moon.

**Devil** · 25th October 2009, 11:47

Originally Posted by p.dath

.... but what do you think causes that loss of control?

Poor decision making, innappropriate speed, driver error, poor vehicle control.

Alcohol and blanket speed are not at the top of the list.

**FJRider** · 25th October 2009, 12:05

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

Well loss of control is mostly attributed to excessive speed for the conditions/your ability anyway mate...so in a way...speed does kill. Those who are going too fast for their own good.

Excessive speed for the conditions, can mean a speed well under the posted speed limit for that area.... Ability to tell what is or isn't excessive, is learnt through experience. And you can still get it wrong.

**Crasherfromwayback** · 25th October 2009, 12:09

Originally Posted by FJRider

Excessive speed for the conditions, can mean a speed well under the posted speed limit for that area.... Ability to tell what is or isn't excessive, is learnt through experience. And you can still get it wrong.

100% agree. I still do every now and then...and I've done a few laps.