Don't fall for Nick Smith's bullshit

[caseye]

Yep a really wheely big calculator with bigg finger holes and everyfink!50,000 registered road going bikes, what the hell??? come on Nick Smith sack your reserach dept and ask us we'll at least tell you the truth.

[Pedrostt500]

The angle we need to present is that Nick Smith is a (erhem) 'victim' of bad advice and misinformed underlings, and get him to see the stats from our point of view

I got halfway there today....he was engaging with me till he tried '50,000' bikes....earlier its been 74 thousand, 83,000...

True number from MOT stats I threw in his face is 116,000 and change
He panicked...no shit panicked, Laxi, Hawkeye and a few others tried hard not to laugh!

NOW

MISINFORMED is not necessarily the same as 'out to get you' even tho we feel like they're out to get us

So we can win our case by re-directing the attention to the fact that we are subsidizing everyone else, and when its truly analyzed there are better ways to prop up ACC

Which aint actually broken.... anyway, as Stan so rightly notes


So the panel of the BIKEOI will present exact stats, and analysis, and a petition at least

And we can only note the massive, MASSIVE public support we got today.

What He also probably learned was he, isn't up against, just a bunch of greasy neanderthal bikers, He will get his underlings to research your Numbers and look for another angle that suits his side of the story.
Every time we fire one of our silver bullets we must make sure that there is another to be loaded into the chamber, of the argument, don't get sucked into reveling all of your side of the argument to early, because that will give them time to counteract it, even if it is with a lie, because a lie will run around the world before the truth can get its boots on.
As I said this afternoon, this battle will go on well beyond the 17th, so don't under estimate our oppisition, particurly if they are on the back foot.
the real battle is not so much with the Politicians regardless of wich party they belong to, but more so with the ACCs policy analists who make up the proposals.

[caseye]

Well said Pedrostt500, and a truer word couldn't have ben spoken in good time.

[FJRider]

Perhaps at this time ... MORE people will be looking at the figures given and saying .... hang on a minute ... thats not quite right ...

[caseye]

FJRider, I too hope so, caue it would stop all the BullShiti n it's tracks if it was understood for what it is.Misinformation as a means to an end by ACC executives/beaurecrats.

[Winston001]

Every time we fire one of our silver bullets we must make sure that there is another to be loaded into the chamber, of the argument, don't get sucked into revealing all of your sides of the argument too early, because that will give them time to counteract it, even if it is with a lie, because a lie will run around the world before the truth can get its boots on.

Very nicely put. The way to win an argument is to have a number of different points which you reveal one at a time. But beyond that, you have to think of the likely responses from the other side and have answers ready. I think we have good prospects with this issue.

...the real battle is not so much with the Politicians regardless of wich party they belong to, but more so with the ACCs policy analists who make up the proposals.

I agree. No politician likes doing something unpopular but the ACC managers have a job to do and they are the ones who need to be shown their analysis is wrong.

[davereid]

this battle will go on well beyond the 17th, so don't under estimate our oppisition, particurly if they are on the back foot.

Bling most appropriately awarded.

ACC have divved the motorvehicle account firstly in half, then latterly into even small segments - cars, 600cc+ bikes, 250-599cc bikes etc etc.

This approach WILL find segments that dont meet their cost profile.

No doubt if the car account was thus divided you may find forward control vans and minis dont meet their cost profile either.

You may find Subarus crash more often, in more serious ways.

Divide other acounts up, you will certainly find the pedestrain, cyclist, snowboarder and rugby accounts in the red as well.

Ohh, and don't forget the little old lady broken hip account, that won't make it either.

REGARDLESS of the statistics, we have a good argument for the motorcycle levy to be struck at parity with cars.

Everybody I have discussed it with, recognises their presence in one of the other groups that may or may not be subsidised, and is easily swung to supporting us.

IMHO we don't need to "prove" we don't crash or pay our way.

Joe Public is fully aware that there are plenty of things he does that arent charged fully to him either.

[idleidolidyll]

As the motorcycle riding public is dominated by males and males were significantly more in favour of ACT and National at the last elections; this is YOUR FAULT!

Don't you remember the National Party trying to destroy ACC last time they had power so they could give it to (mainly) foreign insurance companies?

They played NZ for suckers and won: tax cuts for the wealthy and tax increases for the rest by stealth or with a bludgeon.

Forget about attacking the ACC Corp, attack National and ACT; it really IS them driving this policy and it is the beginnning of an attempt to devalue ACC in order for Kiwis to more readily accept privatisation.

The ACC has $11 billion in funds and collects more than a billion more in fees every year than it pays in claims. This hike is not about making ACC better; it's about destroying ACC completely and handing it to offshore interests

[StoneY]

As the motorcycle riding public is dominated by males and males were significantly more in favour of ACT and National at the last elections; this is YOUR FAULT!

I never voted for National in my 22 years as a voter so far

Green/Labour every time dude, and other than the 'management' at my work I know no others who voted National either, the business owners and over 100k salaries were the Nat's best buddies...others rightfully or wrongfully were just sick of Helen is how JK got in

[caseye]

He's Back!

[pzkpfw]

No doubt if the car account was thus divided you may find forward control vans and minis dont meet their cost profile either.

I used to work at the Motor Registry.

They actually DO have statistics that show certain colours of car are more likely to be involved in crashes than others.

Imagine Joe Public being told his Black car will now cost $50 more per year to license than his neighbours' White car!

[Wasp27]

I never voted for National in my 22 years as a voter so far

Green/Labour every time dude, and other than the 'management' at my work I know no others who voted National either, the business owners and over 100k salaries were the Nat's best buddies...others rightfully or wrongfully were just sick of Helen is how JK got in

OMG.... if this is for real, and not as I hope... a piss take....please, please, please let Les do the talking

[StoneY]

OMG.... if this is for real, and not as I hope... a piss take....please, please, please let Les do the talking

I intend to but for the record buddy, where were you yesterday???

I had a chat with Nick Smith myself...at Parliament....on the steps....

[idleidolidyll]

I never voted for National in my 22 years as a voter so far

Green/Labour every time dude, and other than the 'management' at my work I know no others who voted National either, the business owners and over 100k salaries were the Nat's best buddies...others rightfully or wrongfully were just sick of Helen is how JK got in

And i expect many others to say the same or to deny that they voted National or ACT. While it is obviously true for some, for most it is not.

FACT: Males voted mainly for the right wing parties: National and ACT

despite the truth that some males didn't vote right wing, the FACT remains that most males here probably did vote right wing.

Don't fall for the nonsense that "over 100k salaries" voted National into power; there just aren't enough people in that bracket to swing it.

This is National Party and ACT policy: destroy ACC and allow foreign insurance companies to own us completely.

FACT: ACC collected more than a billion dollars more than it paid in claims last year and that is the norm. FACT: Accident insurance is a cash cow and the Aussies are already talking about the multi billion dollar opportunity to make profits from NZ.

Vote with your feet and your mouth; this is ACT and National Policy not ACC policy: attcak the politicians and attack their parties.

[Skyryder]

[QUOTE=idleidolidyll;1129489688]And i expect many others to say the same or to deny that they voted National or ACT. While it is obviously true for some, for most it is not.

FACT: Males voted mainly for the right wing parties: National and ACT

despite the truth that some males didn't vote right wing, the FACT remains that most males here probably did vote right wing.

Poll Are you happy with the change of power


Yes 64.50% voted they were happy with the change of power

No 15.38%


I don't give a rats arse they are all the same. 20.12%


Skyryder