A caution regarding group rides

**Maki** · 8th November 2009, 06:44

Just a word or two to about group rides. They can be a great way to socialize and learn new skills. They can also be death traps.

There is material on this site about group rides and it is really good. A lot of thought has gone into these and it is worthwhile to study them.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=60340

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d.php?t=107628

However, understand that we do not live in a perfect world. You may be lucky enough to ride in a group with disciplined mature people who know you and your limitations and take that into account. On the other hand you may fall in with a group of hoons who don't know you or simply don't care. The two links above tell how things should be on a group ride. Do not make the mistake of thinking that things will be that way if you go out riding with a group of people you do not know.

If you have little experience my advice to you if you turn up for a group ride with people you don't know is to bear in mind the following.

1. You don't know them, so they will not know you. They will have no idea of your skill level and they will therefore NOT be in any position to take it into account on your ride.

2. They may ride at speeds that are unsuitable for you. They may even ride at speeds that are unsuitable for themselves. Do not assume that they ride safely just because they look like experienced bikers. Don't adopt the mentality that since it looks safe for them it must be safe for me.

3. This is the most important part. YOU must take care of yourself. If it feels too fast and dangerous (uncomfortable) to you just pull over, let the group go and ride your own ride. Don't risk death and destruction just to stay with the group.

You are number one out there. Unless it is a group of mature responsible riders who know you well it is not likely that the group will take care of you.

I advise you to read the thread below. it is long but I think it gives a worthwhile perspective. If we do not know the past and learn from it we are doomed to repeat it.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d.php?t=100612

Here are some quotes from it:

"i mite just be able to keep up with you tuff,,, fast,,, cold,,,hard,,, riders"

"I would not suggest a person that has just got there grown up licence to do it NOT IN A PACK ! !"

"ill teach you the way to be fast this week son"

"haha yeah im serious, never been there before. hope i can find it alright haha, first kb ride for me."

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/blog.php?b=928

So, look after yourself....

**CookMySock** · 8th November 2009, 07:18

That isn't a ride. Thats a race. Idiots racing on public roads are going to get whats coming to them.

New riders who don't realise this have a harsh lesson coming up and you won't be able to change that, and those who have no idea what I am talking about shouldn't be riding in groups.

The sooner this "learning to go fast" thing being done on the road is stamped out, the better. If you have to extend yourself, spend $200 on a pocketbike and go race it competitively. Think about it, is only $200...

Ten guys on bikes riding at legalish speeds spaced well apart should present only the usual road risks, unless someone decides its a race.

Steve

**PrincessBandit** · 8th November 2009, 07:25

Group riding discussions have been done many times here.
IMO new riders should avoid group rides unless they are very small groups (no more than perhaps 3 or 4) and preferably people they know and whose riding and road habits they know.

Maybe it's different for women - generally I think women can ride in larger groups and are not as potentially dangerous. We don't have balls which override our brains when it comes to (poor) decision making.

**Maki** · 8th November 2009, 07:33

Please don't turn this thread into a discussion about any particular ride. I just want to get the general idea across that there is a lot of good theory out there about what a group ride SHOULD be like. What people need to understand is that the rides will often not conform to that theory and they should not make any assumptions in that direction.

**Subike** · 8th November 2009, 07:36

Interestingly, the CHCH Wed Night ride has many new riders attend very often,
The incident rate of this ride is conciderably lower than its north island equvalent, yet the numbers in the group are usually much larger, 30 - 40 riders?
Group rides, if organised by conciderate people are a very safe place for new riders,
but as stated, its the attitude of the riders that make the difference between saftey and stupidity.
Ride your own ride inside your own saftey zone if you are learning, and ride with concideration for the learner if you are experiance.

**thehovel** · 8th November 2009, 07:44

Your riding should NOT affect the bike in front OR bedind you. Space your-selves out. Afterall there is kms of road USE IT. If the pace is too fast slow down and signial the bike behind to pass. You should know where the group is to meet up.Regards Richard PS BE CAREFUL OUT THERE

**CookMySock** · 8th November 2009, 07:47

Originally Posted by Subike

Group rides, if organised by conciderate people are a very safe place for new riders

Yeah. I'm a dad following my learner-daughter at the moment, and our "group rides" are a very pleasant doddle along in the contryside, with lots of slowing down for corners.

The track needs to be much much more accessible for youngsters with cars or bikes. It's way too expensive for them to have a blat every friday night, and thats what they need. edit: and for dads who need to blow off steam after following learner daughters..

Steve

**ajturbo** · 8th November 2009, 08:10

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

...Ten guys on bikes riding at legalish speeds spaced well apart should present only the usual road risks, unless someone decides its a race.

Steve

thanks steve..!!

case in point.... yesterday i was out with a couple of fast riders..

we had enough space between us, to do OUR OWN ride... as far as we were concerned it could have be 3 or 10 others... we AVERAGED over 105k/hr over 10hrs...

could i have gone faster? sometimes i was going too fast, and therefore slowed, but then the leader slowed on the straights.... any noob can go fast in a straight line...

**StoneY** · 8th November 2009, 08:11

Had a small ride with 5 KBers yesterday, and I only knew one of the riders (and his wife) Connor.

We made it clear at the depart it was a slow cruise, as we were taking an MP for a blat, but even if that had been the lovely Missus StoneY it would have been the same.....(yeah right)

The thing is, our ride developed in a perfect manner for an example here

We rode at the leisurely speed limit to the top of the Taka's with Connor on his 1100 passing me to take point and enjoy a few well made sane passes on the way up
Pete376403 and a nice chap called Robert were escorting us, and Pete got some good photos along the way including rolling shots on the straights through dairy flats

I had only ever ridden with Connor of this group, but we all learned each others paces and got comfy going outward real slow and sane, and on the way home with Chris the MP's approval, we let him taste a little (just a little) horsepower on appropriate spots, and all riders were in tune all the way

Its about the attitude I say guys
Not so much 'rules'

Talk before leaving, find out what everyone is expecting, ride in the section of the pack doing 'your' thing

**ajturbo** · 8th November 2009, 08:30

so you ended up taking the guy... what did he think?...

**oldrider** · 8th November 2009, 08:37

Motorbike riding is a solitary activity, maximum of two! (only room for one passenger anyway)

Having ridden most of my life and alone most of the time, I find "group rides" to be a bit paradoxical to the objectives of riding a motorcycle!

Don't get me wrong, I am an extrovert and as such enjoy the company of other people!

Riding alone is the great escape, meeting other riders on the journey is very enjoyable but riding in groups tends to ruin my day!

Like yesterday, we (Mrs O and me) rode over (Dansey Pass) to Naseby for lunch and to see some friends.

Great ride there and back, saw and talked to lots of other bikers while we had lunch or got petrol at Kurow but the best part was the "solitary" ride!

Motorcycling, the last great bastion of freedom and the bastards are at the castle gates!

Kill or be killed, bureaucrats and socialists are your worst nightmare!

**CookMySock** · 8th November 2009, 08:51

Originally Posted by ajturbo

we AVERAGED over 105k/hr over 10hrs...

That is a lot faster than it sounds. Another interesting trick is to check your average/maximum ratio, and keep that as low as possible, ie good trip times, but lowish maximum speeds.

Steve

**Maki** · 11th November 2009, 00:10

Originally Posted by ajturbo

thanks steve..!!

case in point.... yesterday i was out with a couple of fast riders..

we had enough space between us, to do OUR OWN ride... as far as we were concerned it could have be 3 or 10 others... we AVERAGED over 105k/hr over 10hrs...

could i have gone faster? sometimes i was going too fast, and therefore slowed, but then the leader slowed on the straights.... any noob can go fast in a straight line...

Holy crap, where were you riding, Germany? You did 1050km in 10 hours. I had a look at a table of distances in NZ and the closest one I could find to your ride was Blenheim to Milford Sound, 1081km. On the North Island Welling to Cape Reinga is 1094... Want to share more info about your ride, like where did you ride from and to?

You slowed down on the straights? So how fast were you going through the corners on average, 115k/hr?

http://www.tourism.net.nz/new-zealan...d/driving.html

**Waxxa** · 11th November 2009, 09:01

Three rules for riding in large groups:
1. leaders set the pace
2. no overtaking
3. 2 second rule between bikes

simple!...?

**Maki** · 11th November 2009, 09:11

Originally Posted by Waxxa

Three rules for riding in large groups:
1. leaders set the pace
2. no overtaking
3. 2 second rule between bikes

simple!...?

Yes, you could simply end up in a wooden box six feet under if you fail to understand how flawed that is. Those simple rules are how it should be. The point I am trying to make with this thread is that things are not always they way they should be.

I know of cases when riders following your simple rules have paid a high price. If you turn up for a group ride and you don´t know who you are riding with and they don´t know you, then how can you expect them to take care of you, and how can you expect the leader to set a pace that suits you? You CAN'T.

I will give you one simple rule.

Take care of yourself, no one is going to do it for you.

If it feels too fast for you, then it is. Indicate left, move to the side and let the faster riders go. Continue the ride at your own pace. If you don't trust yourself to do that, then stay away from group rides.