Invitation to Mr McLea

[McJim]

Misinformation? Statistics extrapolated from their own published data for the most part. When Bronz requested data to analyse ACC supplied media soundbites with no substantiation or supporting information. THAT is misinformation.

[paturoa]

If it does happen - Make up some "queue cards" or graphics showing the calculations and give them to the telly boyz so they can dispaly them as you talk to them.

There are lots of people out there in telly land who could listen to you talk numbers but be none the wiser.

eg a mega simple graphics that could look like the following:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The $77 Myth ....

xxxxxx cars x $77 = $200m
ACC states total payments = $64 M
Where did the $136 Million dissappear to?

Note: ACC Paid to the Government a dividend of $700M this year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Mom]

Good thought. We could raise some funds.

We have places to spend them

[SARGE]

of course. But our approach has also been refined.

mine too .. now all i need is a widemouth jar and a rag ...

[Conquiztador]

Or 1 search engine.

A chinese 50cc one I hope...

[Ozzie]

Note: ACC Paid to the Government a dividend of $700M this year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That's a good point.

I get the whole fully funded thing, and in theory why there has to be a cut in spending and an increase in revenue, not so much to cover the here and now, but to cover all the costs from now into eternitty, and backwards.

BUT

That being the case, should any surplus not be put back into the system? To assist in the self funding rather than line the Govt pockets?

The whole notion of this fairly shoots down the statement that once fully funded, levies will drop to the floor.

What Eva!

[James Deuce]

That's a good point.

I get the whole fully funded thing, and in theory why there has to be a cut in spending and an increase in revenue, not so much to cover the here and now, but to cover all the costs from now into eternitty, and backwards.

BUT

That being the case, should any surplus not be put back into the system? To assist in the self funding rather than line the Govt pockets?

The whole notion of this fairly shoots down the statement that once fully funded, levies will drop to the floor.

What Eva!

You might "get it", but like most Kiwis you appear to have fallen for the ACC as Insurance argument. It isn't. It never was. A fully funded Insurance model is unnecessary unless the Government is trying to make ACC look good to potential "investors".

[Pixie]

That's a good point.

I get the whole fully funded thing, and in theory why there has to be a cut in spending and an increase in revenue, not so much to cover the here and now, but to cover all the costs from now into eternitty, and backwards.
!

I suppose we are lucky the levies aren't required to approach infinity

[davereid]

you appear to have fallen for the ACC as Insurance argument. It isn't. It never was.

If ACC was an insurance company, motorcycles may be cheaper than cars.

The problem with ACC is that it looks at only account cost.

Insurers look at account liability.

So when you insure for personal and third party injury, a motorcycle is bad because it has a high personal liability for the insurer.

But its great, because it has a low third party risk, and in 66% of collisions your insurer will send the bill to the car driver anyway.

On the other hand, when he insures a van, it may well fill up with teenagers on a couch, who crash into another car injuring them as well. So the insurer has to allow for that when issuing cover.

Its only in the ACC "No fault" system that bikes get a bad rap.

[pzkpfw]

You might "get it", but like most Kiwis you appear to have fallen for the ACC as Insurance argument. It isn't. It never was. A fully funded Insurance model is unnecessary unless the Government is trying to make ACC look good to potential "investors".

That's one of the bits that burns me most.

They go fully funded, costing me more, so they can look like a normal insurance company.

Now fast-forward to when ACC is sold off to someone who buys its' assets. (Those assets built up by all that "fully funded" money they got of us).

Government walks away with a big pile of loot - and that pile of loot is essentially money taken off me (and you, and you ...).

[Ozzie]

You might "get it

To get it isnt to agree with it.

I haven't fallen for anything.

I fully understand and support the cause, am purely attempting to draw Les's attention to yet another possible point of attack on the learned Dr M, not that I especially think Les needs any assistance in that regard, he has a very good grip on things.

Why do car drivers have to "subsidise us" at all, when the government could leave the surplus where it belongs? It highlights the governments pure intention to shag as many people as possible in order to gain profit and structure the scheme such to attract the best sale price.

[James Deuce]

Its only in the ACC "No fault" system that bikes get a bad rap.

Talk to every European country's insurers and you'll find a very different picture. Big bikes are for successful upper middle class fat bastardsand it isn't until you're over-40 that bike insurance starts to look affordable for an "average" Joe.

Having said that, most teenage drivers can't afford the insurance for anything more than a 5 year old 1400cc hatchback in the UK and without insurance your car gets crushed. Boy racers can't outrun a Police Astra either.

Bike insurance for the under-25s is amazingly high, in the 1000s of pounds per year for a 600cc or more bike.

[ckai]

Yes. Public debate, Auckland Town Hall (could we fill it ?), TV cameras televise it.

Tickets offered here first?

Good thought. We could raise some funds.

Wicked, can you imagine 4000 bikes parked around the town hall with helmets lining the aisles and leather clad yobbo's yahooing and cheering?

And, in a tiny corner at the front right, immaculate suits and ties getting skittles and tangy fruits thrown at them.

Fucken oath I'm in!

[k2w3]

That's partly b/c theft is so high in the UK and a lot of people don't have garages in which to store their bikes. Bloody chavs.

[PhantasmNZ]

That's partly b/c theft is so high in the UK and a lot of people don't have garages in which to store their bikes. Bloody chavs.

Not really - theft of cars is only part of it - one of the big things is that young drivers are often at fault, and compensation payouts are high - an (imagined!) sore neck after a minor fender bender will net the complainant at least UKP1500 - and there are ambulance chasing lawyers everywhere promising to screw the insurance company of the at fault driver to the tune of 1000s for "no win no fee"

Seriously - the ACC system here is fantastic - all that crap goes away and insurance policies are realistic - and none of this money goes to low rate legal bloodsuckers.

I'd hate to see the system turn into a real insurance system - but even more I don't see why it's screw-the-bikers season...

Maybe we should all pogo-stick to work - that'd screw the system when we all fell off regularly...