The bigger picture.

[MacD]

The problem I have is the amount of the increase is unwarranted and extremely unfair in a system that is supposed to be a no fault scheme. Something the rest of the world is envious of. That envy will no doubt decrease as we continue to slide towards privtisation and eventual lawsuits etc.

Agreed. What's worse is that international comparisons show that ACC is overall cheaper and more efficient than similar private insurance systems. Even Treasury is unwilling to state that private competition for ACC will result in net cost savings. Why the government is so keen on donating $2 billion of business and $200 million of profit to Australian companies I just don't understand!?

Also Katman gets green rep as he often makes sense, but people don't like the message. The sort of questions he asks are exactly the type of questions we will face in select committee hearings. Motorcyclists underestimate politicians and ACC managers at their peril.

[Toaster]

Agreed. What's worse is that international comparisons show that ACC is overall cheaper and more efficient than similar private insurance systems. Even Treasury is unwilling to state that private competition for ACC will result in net cost savings. Why the government is so keen on donating $2 billion of business and $200 million of profit to Australian companies I just don't understand!?

Also Katman gets green rep as he often makes sense, but people don't like the message. The sort of questions he asks are exactly the type of questions we will face in select committee hearings. Motorcyclists underestimate politicians and ACC managers at their peril.

Agreed... it reminds me of the days when the electricity industry was privatised, split up, sold off.... all in the MP's hopes and statements of cheaper electricity for the consumer.... yeah right.

[Katman]

I agree with Katman. Let's all resolve to ride perfectly from this point forward. It's such a blindingly simple proposition that I'm surprised that somebody didn't think of it years ago.

Hallelujah! Someone that gets where I'm coming from.








(Yes, I do realise your post was just taking the piss).

[Oscar]

So you haven't been paying attention.

The ACC levy issue is only marginally about motorcyclists. It's mostly about ideology: private insurance and the right to sue for liability versus public compensation and no recourse to litigation.

All you and Katman are doing is providing more fuel to the fire of debate as to wheher ACC should exist or not.

Having the debate is fine, that's how these things come and (hopefully not) go.

However - bleating on about levels of fault and blame whilst NOT having the balls or brains to simply come out and have a debate about the merits of ACC is, not to put too fine a point on it, stupid.

I'll type this quite slowly so you can keep up:

Tying the discussion about motorcyclist safety into the debate about ACC levies is completely self-defeating.

It's a zero-sum game.

if you continue to add to the existing perception that behaviours should be reflected in ACC contributions then it's game over. Pack up bikes - good night and thanks for playing cos we're done.

What a load of pretentious crap.

What we were commenting on is the propensity of some motorcycle riders to be their own worst enemy, what you are talking about is some ideologically driven bullshit about ACC.

There has been no comment from either the Govt or ACC about changing the "no-fault" nature of ACC or allowing the right to sue for liability. So the fact that no ones shares your paranoia is no excuses to carrying on like a pompous fuckwit.

And the stupid one here is you, judging by your statement about private insurance. I am an Insurance Underwriter, and I can tell you that I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than insure motorcycles, and/or motorcyclists. The only possible application of private insurance in respect of ACC is in the area of Workers Compensation, which has been conclusively proven to lower premium costs.

[Katman]

Just to keep everyone on topic.........

This thread is not about ACC 'per se'. Rather, it is about why we face the situation we now find ourselves in and what we can do to remedy that problem.

Protesting at parliament is not addressing the crux of the problem.

[Katman]

And yes, I realise that BRONZ's manifesto attempts to address this problem but it will fall on barren soil if we, as a whole, fail to recognise that the problem is far greater than just higher ACC levies.

[Viscount Montgomery]

All this ACC shit came thundering down because of the highly publicized biker carnage that's been constantly happening over the last, say, one, two, or three years. You couldn't fucken miss it, news reports weekend after weekend after weekend after fucken weekend of MOTORCYCLES crashing/head-on collisions/maiming/killing/parapalegics/bloodshed and death.

It's all been shoved via the modern headline-grabbing media damn near daily into the publics faces. All associated with the word MOTORCYCLES. U-turning cops, whole fleets of bikers being taken out by cagers, weekly reports of bikers leaving the road wrapping themselves round powerpoles, hitting bridges, skating on wet roads to their deaths, high speed pursuits, fuckwit squids, carnage, carnage, carnage. Again, all revolving around the word MOTORCYCLE.

Of course it was inevitable that this ACC shit would happen. Too many shit for brains idiots riding motorcycles caused this crap. Only a tiny minority of fuckwits WILL fuck it all for everyone else. That applies to ANYTHING in life. Fucking dreaming if you're thinking otherwise.

These days it takes fuck-all publicity to get the rulebook/regulation nazis to really start hammering their shit home. AND NOW IT'S HAPPENED. Why is anyone surprised??

[dipshit]

Why is anyone surprised??

Because your typical motorcyclist is as thick as pig shit.

[carver]

i love racing on the road

[carver]

Because your typical motorcyclist is as thick as pig shit.

see above post

[caseye]

All this ACC shit came thundering down because of the highly publicized biker carnage that's been constantly happening over the last, say, one, two, or three years. You couldn't fucken miss it, news reports weekend after weekend after weekend after fucken weekend of MOTORCYCLES crashing/head-on collisions/maiming/killing/parapalegics/bloodshed and death.

It's all been shoved via the modern headline-grabbing media damn near daily into the publics faces. All associated with the word MOTORCYCLES. U-turning cops, whole fleets of bikers being taken out by cagers, weekly reports of bikers leaving the road wrapping themselves round powerpoles, hitting bridges, skating on wet roads to their deaths, high speed pursuits, fuckwit squids, carnage, carnage, carnage. Again, all revolving around the word MOTORCYCLE.

Of course it was inevitable that this ACC shit would happen. Too many shit for brains idiots riding motorcycles caused this crap. Only a tiny minority of fuckwits WILL fuck it all for everyone else. That applies to ANYTHING in life. Fucking dreaming if you're thinking otherwise.

These days it takes fuck-all publicity to get the rulebook/regulation nazis to really start hammering their shit home. AND NOW IT'S HAPPENED. Why is anyone surprised??

x 2!
Seems theres more than one person out there who is beginning to see where you are coming from katman.

[Pussy]

All this ACC shit came thundering down because of the highly publicized biker carnage that's been constantly happening over the last, say, one, two, or three years. You couldn't fucken miss it, news reports weekend after weekend after weekend after fucken weekend of MOTORCYCLES crashing/head-on collisions/maiming/killing/parapalegics/bloodshed and death.

It's all been shoved via the modern headline-grabbing media damn near daily into the publics faces. All associated with the word MOTORCYCLES. U-turning cops, whole fleets of bikers being taken out by cagers, weekly reports of bikers leaving the road wrapping themselves round powerpoles, hitting bridges, skating on wet roads to their deaths, high speed pursuits, fuckwit squids, carnage, carnage, carnage. Again, all revolving around the word MOTORCYCLE.

Of course it was inevitable that this ACC shit would happen. Too many shit for brains idiots riding motorcycles caused this crap. Only a tiny minority of fuckwits WILL fuck it all for everyone else. That applies to ANYTHING in life. Fucking dreaming if you're thinking otherwise.

These days it takes fuck-all publicity to get the rulebook/regulation nazis to really start hammering their shit home. AND NOW IT'S HAPPENED. Why is anyone surprised??

That's it!
Perception is everything

[dipshit]

Provide the proof that we as a group are over represented in crash statics.

Try reading the papers on Monday mornings over the summer months. Usually reads "4 killed on the roads over the weekend, 2 of which were motorcyclists."

Weekend after weekend you have a small minority of road users (3.5% of registered vehicles in NZ) making up a large portion of the fatalities.

And NZ land transport figures show 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents are rider error.

And most people realise that these bikes are usually only being taken out by their owners on those sunny weekends for a blast.

The high casualty rates with their actual low road usage is why we are seeing claims like 16 times the risk of being injured etc.

[Katman]

And those who refute those figures are those who refuse to believe we have anything to answer to.

[jack_hamma]

I think we are an easy target, figuers don't support it but general rule most feel that motorcycling is risky at the best of times.... easy prey to get support. Ask anyone who's not into or cares about bikes and they would say "oh motorcycling is dangerous isn't it"? or on those lines.

Maybe trucks be next... with all that destructive mass!!