The bigger picture.

[Katman]

I think we are an easy target, figuers don't support it but general rule most feel that motorcycling is risky at the best of times.... easy prey to get support. Ask anyone who's not into or cares about bikes and they would say "oh motorcycling is dangerous isn't it"? or on those lines.

That's a highly blinkered view you're blessed with.

[Ronin]

Try reading the papers on Monday mornings over the summer months. Usually reads "4 killed on the roads over the weekend, 2 of which were motorcyclists."

Weekend after weekend you have a small minority of road users (3.5% of registered vehicles in NZ) making up a large portion of the fatalities.

And NZ land transport figures show 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents are rider error.

And most people realise that these bikes are usually only being taken out by their owners on those sunny weekends for a blast.

The high casualty rates with their actual low road usage is why we are seeing claims like 16 times risk of being injured etc.

Ohhh your taking the mickey ain't ya?

Before your start throwing figures around, make sure they are the correct ones.

Usually is not afaik an acceptable statistical term. Even if it were, it isn't so. Shall we try sometimes instead?

75%? Been under a rock for the last month? Even ACC Only claim around 60% are our fault.

[oldrider]

Just a theory but I suspect there is a far simpler reason ACC has aimed it's cash demand at motorcyclists- best return for the least expenditure.

Just like any business wanting to increase revenue ACC looked for a solution that will bring in more cash while not requiring massive expenditure to do so. Specifically ACC don't want to have to create a raft of new Bureaucracies and infrastuctures to target any new "accident risk" groups.

You go for the easy option first. As a Group 'Road Using' Motorcyclists are the ideal target requiring the least expenditure to collect a levy. We already have to register our bikes- with the levy built in. We already have to display this rego evidence and the Police already do the monitoring for ACC- every roadside chat with a HP will see your licence and rego checked. Free labour for the ACC. Everything is in place..already, no new expenses.

Last weekend there were two mountaineering incidents involving a death and serious injuries to others. In the last two weeks there have been two light aircraft/microlight crashes. I'm sure ACC would like to go after these types and sport players and mountaineers etc But there is simply no mechanism in place to collect and police payments from these people. It's impractical and they know it. Imagine setting up procedures and employing people to do spot checks during rugby/football/hockey games etc across the country. Running on to a sports field with a clip board to check each player has paid an ACC levy! Who is going to climb Mt Cook to check everyone up there has paid their levy?

MD Not really on topic for this thread but have a think about your post with regards to user pays for ACC.

Rather than hitting vehicle registrations the way they suggest, if Gov't levy 2% on tyres (all tyres) for ACC they would spread their net wider and get a greater return and gather from most of those who currently pay nothing as well! (cyclists etc)

Think about it for a while and see how many of the above (and beyond) would then be paying some of their share while in pursuit of their leisure activities!

Everybody uses something with wheels to go about their day to day activities at some time of the day or night

Just something to think about but of course I may be completely wrong!

[Katman]

Ohhh your taking the mickey ain't ya?

Before your start throwing figures around, make sure they are the correct ones.

Usually is not afaik an acceptable statistical term. Even if it were, it isn't so. Shall we try sometimes instead?

75%? Been under a rock for the last month? Even ACC Only claim around 60% are our fault.

Back to school for you, shit for brains.

[jack_hamma]

That's a highly blinkered view you're blessed with.

I think I hear what your saying... just like cars shouldn't we be blessed with all the ad's on TV, all the driving training programs that seem to everywere for cars, it's alittle more harder to find for all that for up skilling bikers?

[dipshit]

75%? Been under a rock for the last month? Even ACC Only claim around 60% are our fault.

And 75% of the FATAL motorcycle accidents. (you know, the ones that make the papers on Monday mornings)
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...-Factsheet.pdf (bottom of page 4)

[dipshit]

Back to school for you, shit for brains.

He's just another typical motorcyclist.

[dipshit]

Maybe trucks be next... with all that destructive mass!!

Trucks did have a good going over a while ago. They were seeing an increase in trucking accidents and did do something about it. That's when they brought in the compulsory rest periods and working hours and stricter logbooks amongst other new regulations.

[BMWST?]

Just a theory but I suspect there is a far simpler reason ACC has aimed it's cash demand at motorcyclists- best return for the least expenditure.

Just like any business wanting to increase revenue ACC looked for a solution that will bring in more cash while not requiring massive expenditure to do so. Specifically ACC don't want to have to create a raft of new Bureaucracies and infrastuctures to target any new "accident risk" groups.

You go for the easy option first. As a Group 'Road Using' Motorcyclists are the ideal target requiring the least expenditure to collect a levy. We already have to register our bikes- with the levy built in. We already have to display this rego evidence and the Police already do the monitoring for ACC- every roadside chat with a HP will see your licence and rego checked. Free labour for the ACC. Everything is in place..already, no new expenses.

Last weekend there were two mountaineering incidents involving a death and serious injuries to others. In the last two weeks there have been two light aircraft/microlight crashes. I'm sure ACC would like to go after these types and sport players and mountaineers etc But there is simply no mechanism in place to collect and police payments from these people. It's impractical and they know it. Imagine setting up procedures and employing people to do spot checks during rugby/football/hockey games etc across the country. Running on to a sports field with a clip board to check each player has paid an ACC levy! Who is going to climb Mt Cook to check everyone up there has paid their levy?

agreed we are the easy target,and the logic IS with them as far as risk of injury is concerned...

[jack_hamma]

Yes that's true, do remember that... Just meaning when they have a crash there impact is far greater.. so there ACC should be high to suit

[Katman]

agreed we are the easy target,and the logic IS with them as far as risk of injury is concerned...

We are an easy target only because we make ourselves an easy target.

[BMWST?]

We are an easy target only because we make ourselves an easy target.

HOW do we make ourselves a smaller target.How do we get this transformation in behaviour?How.
Dipshit seems to think we are all past it.

[dipshit]

Yes that's true, do remember that... Just meaning when they have a crash there impact is far greater.. so there ACC should be high to suit

Unless the trucking industry did manage to clean up its act (and stop the culture of the blow-hard truck drivers having a wank session down at the local pub bragging about doing this or that run in x amount of time) and reduce the amount of accidents trucks were having. Then there's no need for the ACC bean counters to target them in the first place.

[dipshit]

HOW do we make ourselves a smaller target.How do we get this transformation in behaviour?How.

One way would be to reduce the culture in motorcycling of the blow-hards having a wank session about pulling a wheelie "thiiiiisssss" long or going from A to B in x amount of time and thinking they are shit hot for doing so.

[dipshit]

HOW do we make ourselves a smaller target.How do we get this transformation in behaviour?How.

And stop motorcyclists getting around thinking their shit doesn't stink and most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

Perhaps then they may scrutinise their own riding behaviour a bit more.