DOM POST says - bikers should pay

[koba]

yes, but if there are only a few purple people, you can gather support by illustrating that blues and greens and..... will be next.

Yep!

[Kennif]

He was saying 66% of car vs bike accidents was the car driver's fault. (the other 44% of multivehicle accidents being the motorcyclist's fault).

Ummmmm ... 66% + 44% = 110%?
Thats the trouble with statistics.

What did Mark Twain say "Lies, damn lies and statistics?"

[Subike]

Ummmmm ... 66% + 44% = 110%?
Thats the trouble with statistics.

What did Mark Twain say "Lies, damn lies and statistics?"

this is where I see that a lot of us make the error,
66% of all the accidents between cars and bikes....not the total of all bike accidents.
the figures refer only to a section of the accidents as you can see.
50% of the accedents for bikes where no other vehicle is involed are caused by.....
20% of bike accedents involve more than one bike................pluss the car
18.5% of bike accedents are due to road conditions.......but involve speed,
It depends upon what angle you want to look at it, like they say statistics can be missleading if you have an agender.
The dominions agender is to sell papers,
The non bike riding public want fuel for arguments in disussing this matter,
The dominion gave them this, It sells.

[slofox]

Sent the editor a letter of my own. As follows:

Dear Editor

In your editorial of 19 November, regarding ACC levies on motorcycles, you make two statements that I would take you to task over. Viz:

1. "Mountain climbers and sportspeople are engaging in activities that improve the general fitness of the population and provide a health benefit that offsets the cost of broken bones."

2. "But neither should (motorcyclists) expect other road users to subsidise their pleasures."

The first statement suggests you believe no good is produced from riding a motorcycle. My bike goes three times as far on a litre of petrol as does my station wagon and it occupies less space on the roads. Is this not in the public good? Producing less congestion and a smaller carbon footprint surely has some merit. How often are we chided for driving around solo in a car capable of carrying four or more people? Riding a bike solves this problem for one.

The second statement suggests you believe motorcycles are ridden only for pleasure. Wrong. Many people have a motorcycle as their only means of transport. Whilst I love to ride and do indeed ride for pleasure at times, a major factor in my using a motorcycle is to reduce my fuel bill. Which it does - see above.

I hope you will take these factors into account in future discussions of ACC levies.

[FastBikeGear]

Not if a small section of road users are costing a significantly large portion of the payouts. The average motorcyclist costing 3.5 times what the average car driver costs is what they are worried about.

No, what they are saying is our accidents cost more per accident and we are 16 times more likely to have an accident, which is totally misleading. I've done a lot of marketing over the years and if I said this in an advertisement a competitor or client could have a field day under a number of different acts.

The reality is that we claim less per accident and we are only (appox) 3 times more likely to have an accident.

If Nicks Smiths figure of $745.00 ACC levy for a 600CC machine was calculated from us being 16 times more likely to have an accident then the levy is probably fair enough. (provided of course that New Zealanders to abandon the no-fault principles).

However if we can show that we are only 3 times more likely to have an accident then surely our "premium" should be recalculated as follows $745/(16/3)=$139.60!

[FastBikeGear]

either acc scraps the no fault/risk policy across the board, or rejects the proposed levy, those are the only two non-discrimanatory options they have

That's very nicely put!

[modboy]

Good one slofox and everyone else that's written a letter to the editor.

Here is another issue. Who the hell is it for anyone to be making normative distinctions about what is "good" for the general public and what is not. For fucks sake - riding my bike contributes to my health simply because I enjoy it, I also enjoy climbing mountains and tramping and skateboarding and cycling - these are also risk based activities.

Shit, we should levy skateboarders - didn't think of that, antisocial tagging underclass that we are.

This editorial was written by some fucking doo-gooder with an undercurrent that comes straight out of the 50s, lets ban rock n' roll while we are at it...
Bloody anti-social bikies - lets tax the mofos off the road. Tim Pankhurst lives just round the corner from me, I might give him a blast with the debaffled arrow tomorrow

[AD345]

Letter sent (my first ever to a paper):

To the editor,
The egalitarian “fair go” spirit of New Zealand has its embodiment in the founding principles of ACC. We all chip in to cover the cost of accidental injury to any of us. Pretty simple.
The home handyman who runs a nail through his palm, the schoolchild who falls from a piece of gym equipment, the grandmother who slips on the pavement – all are entitled to have their injuries treated without an inquiry as to blame or liability. A more caring and unique piece of legislation cannot be found anywhere else in the world. It is something we are all rightly proud of and it helps define who we are and how we view our world.

It is under threat. A particularly insidious method of attack has been chosen, namely to put the citizens of this country against each other whilst telling them “it’s for your own good”. ACC has 11 billion dollars in reserves and 2 weeks ago paid a 700 million dollar dividend to the Government. It has never been more flush with cash and its investment arm regularly out-performs that of merchant banks while taking care of our money.
So what is the reward for those who have achieved so much and us who fund it? The board was sacked and staffed with Government cronies and the funders (you and I) have been told to front up with more cash, a LOT more cash, “cos it’s broke”.
The refrain from the bikers at Parliament is easily understood in this light and two serious questions are now raised.

“Why are more people not protesting the rape of our identity?”

“After the motorcyclists, who’s next?”

Regards
AD345

What an excellent letter....which lets itself down as soon as you use the word "cronies". Most of what is written is very very good. May I suggest leaving out emotive terms such as cronies and rape because they distract from the strong message being sent.

Also the "rape of our identity" question doesn't gel with the rest and is unnecessary.

Well constructed intelligent letters like this printed in newspapers up and down the country will keep this issue alive.

Well, after all that I decided to follow Winstons advice and re-sent the letter with those phrases removed.

I got published

they did abridge it - but lookee what the final result was:


New Zealand's egalitarian "fair go" spirit is embodied in the founding principles of ACC. We all chip in to cover the cost of accidental injury to any of us.

The law is caring and unique. It's something we're all rightly proud of and it helps define who we are and how we view our world.

It's under threat. Citizens are being pitted against each other while being told it's for their own good.

ACC has $11 billion in reserves and, two weeks ago, paid a $700 million dividend to the Government. ACC has never been more flush with cash and its investment arm regularly outperforms those of merchant banks, while taking care of our money.

So what's the reward for those who have achieved so much and those who fund it? The board was sacked and replaced with government cronies, and the funders - you and I - have been told to front up with a lot more cash, because it's broke.

The refrain from bikers at Parliament last week is easily understood in this light. Two serious questions are now raised: why are more people not protesting about the rape of our identity and, after motorcyclists, who's next?

[FastBikeGear]

Well, after all that I decided to follow Winstons advice and re-sent the letter with those phrases removed.

I got published

they did abridge it - but lookee what the final result was:


New Zealand's egalitarian "fair go" spirit is embodied in the founding principles of ACC. We all chip in to cover the cost of accidental injury to any of us.

The law is caring and unique. It's something we're all rightly proud of and it helps define who we are and how we view our world.

It's under threat. Citizens are being pitted against each other while being told it's for their own good.

ACC has $11 billion in reserves and, two weeks ago, paid a $700 million dividend to the Government. ACC has never been more flush with cash and its investment arm regularly outperforms those of merchant banks, while taking care of our money.

So what's the reward for those who have achieved so much and those who fund it? The board was sacked and replaced with government cronies, and the funders - you and I - have been told to front up with a lot more cash, because it's broke.

The refrain from bikers at Parliament last week is easily understood in this light. Two serious questions are now raised: why are more people not protesting about the rape of our identity and, after motorcyclists, who's next?

You are truly a god!

All heil AD345!

[FastBikeGear]

AD345 just sent me this link.

Check it out

Three great letters!

Nick Smith place one advert in the dominion post.

In one paper ACC levy protestors out numbered him 3 to 1!

[Jantar]

He was saying 66% of car vs bike accidents was the car driver's fault. (the other 44% of multivehicle accidents being the motorcyclist's fault)

Then there is all the single vehicle motorcycle accidents.

Overall, 40% of motorcycle accidents can be blamed on car drivers.

Mmmm 66% + 44% = 110%

Try saying 66% of car vs bike accidents was the car driver's fault. (the other 34% of multivehicle accidents being the motorcyclist's fault)

Overall, 48% of motorcycle accidents can be blamed on car drivers

[Winston001]

Well, after all that I decided to follow Winstons advice and re-sent the letter with those phrases removed.

I got published

they did abridge it - but lookee what the final result was:


New Zealand's egalitarian "fair go" spirit is embodied in the founding principles of ACC. We all chip in to cover the cost of accidental injury to any of us.

The law is caring and unique. It's something we're all rightly proud of and it helps define who we are and how we view our world.

It's under threat. Citizens are being pitted against each other while being told it's for their own good.

ACC has $11 billion in reserves and, two weeks ago, paid a $700 million dividend to the Government. ACC has never been more flush with cash and its investment arm regularly outperforms those of merchant banks, while taking care of our money.

So what's the reward for those who have achieved so much and those who fund it? The board was sacked and replaced with government cronies, and the funders - you and I - have been told to front up with a lot more cash, because it's broke.

The refrain from bikers at Parliament last week is easily understood in this light. Two serious questions are now raised: why are more people not protesting about the rape of our identity and, after motorcyclists, who's next?

I'm really chuffed you had that published. Well written and to the point.