Westfield Mall Protest

[Ronin]

How does "image" or "perception" actually generate the type of political pressure needed to effect a change in policy direction?

It works like this: The Government tends to (granted not always) pay attention to public feeling. Note I said pay attention not follow blindly.

Look at the media coverage for the "Democracy march". One person arrested, Mixed messages and protesting well over a year to late. Did I mention the negative connotations of it being noted that they were marching to be allowed to beat their kids. please note, this is an example only and not representative of my own views. I like to beat kids as much as the next parent

[laRIKin]

Funny because a colleague at work who really couldn't give atoss either way asked me why people would do this to piss off ma and pa and risk their good will.

What is the point in causing distress, disruption, and loss of business to the people that we need support from?

In doing so though you are putting a far bigger target on bikers backs than ACC could ever do. You will, with a couple of acts take away any positive support that Ma and Pa public have towards us. The public that were quietly (and not so quietly) impressed at the sight of 6000 bikes, 10,000 well behaved bikers and a raft of shattered misconceptions will instead shake their heads and think we have reverted to type.

Instead of giving the process a chance, working with what is supposed to be your own community, you will do what you always do. Push your own agenda regardless of the consequences.

So go ahead. Suffer under delusion that your acts will cause the Government to cave in.

Just don't expect any back up from me or my mates.

it's not the mall raising your levies. It's not Ma and Pa raising your levies. The public onside is worth far more than offside.

It has all been said before.:slap:

[short-circuit]

It works like this: The Government tends to (granted not always) pay attention to public feeling. Note I said pay attention not follow blindly.[/SIZE]

Um - did you know the stalk didn't really deliver you to your mummy and daddy?

[Ronin]

How does "image" or "perception" actually generate the type of political pressure needed to effect a change in policy direction?

As I've said elsewhere: There is another current thread about Bikers and charities - we do heaps in this area but has it changed perceptions? There was StoneY's thread (attempting to remedy the fuck up made by a tit on a Harley at the Bikeoi), which many feared might undermine the exemplary behaviour by 7000 of the rest of us.

Public support would be a bonus but the main issue focus should be causing a headache for this government. Again the aim of industrial action by those in the health, education and primary social services is not to harm students, patients or citizens...although those are the groups affected until government makes the changes needed to make the pain go away

It has all been said before.:slap:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not silly enough to think for a moment that I could change anybody's mind. And if I was that silly. It certainly wouldn't be shortcircuts.

[Ronin]

Um - did you know the stalk didn't really deliver you to your mummy and daddy?

Certainly do, I also know they loved me sooooooo.

Which is probably why I'm not a shouty stabby person.

[R6_kid:Me]

How does "image" or "perception" actually generate the type of political pressure needed to effect a change in policy direction?

Is it not better that when we are seen in the media when trying to effect change, that we are in fact seen to be doing the 'right thing' or at least doing it the 'right way'.

As I've said elsewhere: There is another current thread about Bikers and charities - we do heaps in this area but has it changed perceptions? There was StoneY's thread (attempting to remedy the fuck up made by a tit on a Harley at the Bikeoi), which many feared might undermine the exemplary behaviour by 7000 of the rest of us.

This is an will always be the way, but how would the protest have been percieved if it was 7000 unlawful and inconsiderate bikers causing a ruckus, and one rider behaving themself?

Public support would be a bonus but the main issue focus should be causing a headache for this government. Again the aim of industrial action by those in the health, education and primary social services is not to harm students, patients or citizens...although those are the groups affected until government makes the changes needed to make the pain go away

The difference being that those services are crucial to the people. Bikers being charged higher levies is not. How does causing public disruption help get the message across that if they don't support us (in that we are actually fighting FOR them), ACC will end up moving away from NO FAULT, ACCIDENT PREVENTION AND COMPENSATION, and towards USER PAYS accident INSURANCE.

[Tink]

Do we really have to use innocent people as pawns though. That's what I'm uncomfortable about. I don't care about the legal right or wrong of it.

Do you really think there trade will be affected... I am not so sure... but who knows, depends on how long they are there for I guess

[laRIKin]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not silly enough to think for a moment that I could change anybody's mind. And if I was that silly. It certainly wouldn't be shortcircuts.

Well I hope for our sakes, that not many turn up.
As they can see the harm it could do.

My last comment on this folly.

[Ronin]

Do you really think there trade will be affected... I am not so sure... but who knows, depends on how long they are there for I guess

'Tis got little to do with their trade being affected. Has got everything to do with Ma n Pa explaining to the kids why they can't go to the Mall and have their sugar slurpies.

Perceptions vs actual harm.

[Ronin]

Well, as fun as this has been, I'm off to bed with a nice warm cup of HTFU. Maybe then I will be a big mean angry biker.

[jeffs]

You guys really don't get it.

If the Westfield carparks are private, they will have laws that will allow you to be removed. I hope you enjoy seeing your Bikes being towed off the carparks to cheering crowds of car owners out doing their Christmas shopping.

Like "The Stranger" let me know when you do out west so I can join in the cheering.

If you know bikers are against your protest, why do you thing joe public will be on your side ?

You planned protest against ACC well be viewed as a protest against cars and nothing else.

Some commuters use the free parking provided in the city carparks for bikers, start filling up the space to prove your point, and see how long it is before these go.

But just to be fair, and show you alternatives....to prove I am not just saying do nothing.


If you want to make an impact, park outside the ACC Auckland office at 18 Sale Street. ACC are the people you should be shitting on.

[Subike]

This is such a good thread,just like some of the others that SS is in and trying to get his point across, Keep it up SS we need the practice.
You are exibiting the ame one eyedness that Nick Smith is about ACC.
He does not want to see our side because of his arguments.
You donot want to see our side because of your arguments.
Nick Smith had a lot support from his group when he started,
You had a lot of support from a few in here when you first started.
Nick Smith has lost reputaion and support as his lies have come to light
You have lost support and support as the arguments against you have increased.
Im not saying you are Nick Smith, your not that stupid.
I am saying that the road you are traveling in principle is the same.
Dont stop SS , we need the practice to keen the edges of our arguments,
we need to learn how to address NicK Smith who will not change his arguments.
You will not change your argument,
Thanks for helping us all become better at arguing with the facts
Indeed!
I look forward to tonights round of entrertainment from your side and our side of this debate this thread and other threads on the forum.
Oh, I am against blocking car parks at this stage of the war.

[Gubb]

This is such a good thread,just like some of the others that SS is in and trying to get his point across, Keep it up SS we need the practice.

Why the fuck are you bringing up the Secret Service?

[Elysium]

Bet big and win big, bet big and loose big.

[Indiana_Jones]

Why the fuck are you bringing up the Secret Service?

Schutzstaffel!

-Indy