Mokihinui .Woz up there? and do we need so much of this electrickery

[Ixion]

I been there . Good place. Ought to be left alone. Like it was intended to be.

For some reason the NZ National geographic sent me a free magazine . Dunno why, I certainly ain't paying for it. But in it there was a bit about the Manapouri protests. I remember them.

And it said they want to build another bloody dam, on the Mokihinui.

Now, I sure as hell ain't no greenie. But I reckon they ought to step back and take a long hard look at that .

Anyone know if its going ahead?

And why do we need more of the damn stuff? We should have surplus, ought to be using less every year. Almost everything nowadays uses less electrickery than it used it. I remember valve radios, used amps and amps, practically needed their own hydro station. Now, ICs use milliamps. Electric range, used shit loads. Now, microwaves use bugger all. We ought to have a surplus.

So how come they reckon we need more? When I was a lad, lots of people didn't have it at all, they managed fine. Now we get told we need more and more every year. Maybe it's time we said, no, y' gotta use less not more.

Not hard , really. Junk the central heating and airconditioning for a start. Cold? Put more clothes on. Hot? Take 'em off. (chicks, take 'em off anyway ) We have a temperate climate never gets very hot or cold.

When you use lectrickery up, it doesn't just disappear y'know . Goes somewhere, everything goes somewhere. Mainly, into heat. Amount we're using nowadays, it's a wonder we aren't boiled alive.

Maybe if they tried turning out all the bloody office lights at night, eh?

Anyway , anyone know if they're gonna build that dam or not?

[sAsLEX]

Used to have one radio per house.

Now there is a tv in each room.

That could be one reason.

[Ixion]

Well, chez Ixion only got one per house. And modern TVs should use bugger all electrickery. The Ixionic TV is 30 years old , and puts out a lotta heat. Modern ones I've seen , y' cna hold your hand on them when they're going! And they're not even warm. So that don't account for it.

[Pussy]

...don't forget the four cellphone chargers per household, too!.....

[sAsLEX]

Well, chez Ixion only got one per house. And modern TVs should use bugger all electrickery. The Ixionic TV is 30 years old , and puts out a lotta heat. Modern ones I've seen , y' cna hold your hand on them when they're going! And they're not even warm. So that don't account for it.

Have you put your hand over one of those massive plasma screens?

What are you writing this on?

[mashman]

so technology then... I don't know many large businesses that turn their servers off these days. They need the uptime for backups and the likes. Could account for a fair chunk. Add that to many company's servers sit in an air conditioned room and it's always hummin, office lights on irrespective of the fact that it's day time, street lamps, lighting highways, lights in parks, those god awful neon signs on the top of buildings, tunnel lights, bus station lights, stupid outside garage lights on sensors and my wifes hair dryer etc...

[CookMySock]

Yeah, and our four fridges, two TVs, seven computers, three laptops.. I'm surprised the power lines to our house aren't on fire.

One day, I want to unplug everything, and not plug it back in. That would be cool I reckon. The power company will think the meter is broken.

Steve

[Ixion]

Have you put your hand over one of those massive plasma screens?

What are you writing this on?

Don't have massive plasma anythings.

BUT -- Mrs Ixion is anal retentive about household bills. So, digging throught her old records, I found the electrickery bills for 27 years ago - when she wrestled control of them from me.

And - obviously the dollars has gone up. But the number of kilowatty houry thingies has gone DOWN - by nearly 20%. As expected.

So it's not us NORMAL people what are doing it. We're using LESS electrickery, not more.

So why do we need new dams, buggering the country about? (not to mention people trying to put in stupid sind generator things, and horrible greta pylons everywhere. If we must have more electriclery , why nnot have it generated near where it's needed. Solar power FTW.)

[Motu]

And we need more life out of these doohickies too,not throw them away after 12 months.

28 years ago as a struggling single income family,we were sick of the throw away vacuum cleaners,and spent some serious dosh on a Tellus.Last week the on/off switch crapped out....I fixed it (no,my wife did,she was trained in such mechanical switches) by pulling it apart and cleaning the contacts,but couldn't rerivet it back together.Got a new switch today and it's running again.28 years and all it's needed is a switch and a hose because a series of 4 toddlers kept standing on it.

What happened to quality!!?? These days we are such a moaning and complaining lot of bastards,but we are happy for manufacturers to off load high tech crap on us that we toss away without a thought when it doesn't go any more.

[Ixion]

Electrical appliances, used to be , you bought one of each when you married (or got given them as wedding prezzies) ; then bought a replacement for each just before you retired, to see you out.

That seems a pretty good arrangement to me, what I work on.

[James Deuce]

Our household current draw has decreased markedly in the last couple of years.

Our biggest electrickery issues are the hugely inefficient single Cook Strait cable and the attendant transmission losses, plus things like Manapouri not being generally used for National Grid power supply.

Though talking to someone at a 21st last weekend, the National Gubbermint might well be looking at doing something about the Grid and the South to North transmission medium. They've put a stack of money aside for it already.

[Jantar]

....
Anyone know if its going ahead?
....

Current status
The hearing has been adjourned. http://www.wcrc.govt.nz/mokihinui/

Either a new power station is needed in the upper South Island / West Coast area, or new and massive power lines need to be built into the region. Every year now the situation is getting worse in this area, and there are two main reasons: Irrigation and the Clean Air Act.

As more and more farms are being converted from dry crop to dairy there is a growing need for irrigation. Many of these irrigation systems require huge pumps with an equally huge demand for power. There has been around a 400% increase in irrigation power demand in the last decade. We're not talking TVs or Cell phone chargers but massive water pumps.

The last Liabour government made it mandatory that regional councils had to clean up the air and placed limits on the amount of air polution that was permitted in any area. To comply with this many regional councils outlawed solid fuel burners and open fires in certain areas including Christchurch. people in these affected areas had to replace those nice warm fires with heat pumps which of course use more of that electrickery.

This extra demand in Canterbury, Nelson and the west coast (ie the Upper South Island) has caused considerable strain on the South Island grid. hence the need for either the Mokihinui scheme or a new coal fired station on the west coast. Solar and wind just wont do it.

[Jantar]

...Our biggest electrickery issues are the hugely inefficient single Cook Strait cable and the attendant transmission losses, plus things like Manapouri not being generally used for National Grid power supply.
...

I'm not sure just what you are getting at here Jim. All of Manapouri's generation goes into the grid. There was a time shortly after the electricity market was formed that Meridian didn't offer Manapouri into the market but treated it as being specific for Tiwai point. But that situation changed about 10 years ago. Right now Manapouri is generating 634 MW and selling it all into the market. Tiwai is using 579 MW and buying it all from the market.

The Cook straight cable is an issue that needs correcting, but the biggest problem our electricity sytem is facing right now is too much wind variability. We are just about at saturation point for wind farms. They are causing line constraints and reserve issues far greater than any hydro or thermal station ever could.

[sAsLEX]

The Cook straight cable is an issue that needs correcting, but the biggest problem our electricity sytem is facing right now is too much wind variability. We are just about at saturation point for wind farms. They are causing line constraints and reserve issues far greater than any hydro or thermal station ever could.

What is the lead time for something like the cable? 7 years probably? Typical NZ thinking we are fixing that problem too late. How much power is flowing north these days?



Nuclear?

[James Deuce]

I'm not sure just what you are getting at here Jim.

No neither do I. I argued the point and caved after 2 "Government experts" browbeat me about it. I'll stick to my guns in future.